Empire, Power & People with Andrew Gavin Marshall- Episode 119

Peace, Power Politics & Israel-Palestine

EPPTaking a look at the party politics, the new rising political figures and movements within Israel, it is clear that this has been a major impediment to the formation of a true 'peace process' with the Palestinians, let alone to the possible formation of a Palestinian state. This episode examines the key figures, parties and processes that took place during the course of the Kerry-led "peace talks" in 2013 and 2014, leading directly to the most recent mass slaughter of Palestinians beginning in July 2014. Throughout the whole process, Palestinians have been subjected to the power politics of the occupying power (and its imperial patrons), all the while having to react and maintain a limited legitimacy for themselves, all the while receiving all the blame (and punishment) for everything that went wrong.

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  1. Peace and Security vs. Peace and Justice are non-compatible. Very interesting.

    While listening, this question comes to mind:

    What does an ethical person wish for the Palestinians?

    I want all of our anti-state proponents to consider this question. What to promote for the Palestinians, who are being imprisoned by a tyrannical state? What do people need to do, in order to resist tyranny?

    I’d love to hear the answers from the state-haters. Some might include:
    –More private security
    –More private justice
    –More private insurance
    –More private ownership of common space

    I’d also love to hear from those who understand that government is a tool, that exists amongst each and every group of people, at all times. How can the Palestinian public best resist tyranny? Some options:
    –Continual fight for better representation, liberty, and justice in a single state in the region of conflict and occupation, from the ground up.
    –Fight for a separate state, one that is continually negotiated as smaller and less powerful, less resourceful.
    –Run for the hills. Escape from occupied Palestine and spread to the four winds.

    Hopefully, this context of the current situation in the occupied territory will help us imagine what ways and means are realistic and viable, for civil society, for civil liberty. Hopefully, more of us will recognize that most Palestinians won’t be able to afford that plot of land in Galt’s Gulch or Liberty Island. Not even enough for the plane ticket.

    Thoughts?

  2. The main reason some in Israel want to officially call it a Jewish state, is because they are afraid of the Palestinians becoming part of it. That is the only solution to the apartheid state they have noe. Tear down that wall. Who cares about the name of the country, if all the people could have equal rights and respective representation. That’s what the tyrants (zionists) are most afraid of. A representation democracy for all the people there. They aren’t afraid that the Palestinians will go all Libertarian anti-state. They aren’t afraid of Palestinian voluntaryists.

    IMHO

  3. Julian Metter says:

    I’m not sure if my comment is “substantive” or stylist but listening to Andrew Gavin Marshall I am troubled by a recurring phenomena in the alt media on this subject which works to marginalize and defeat any real movement towards a viable human resolution. Specifically the presentation takes on a noticeably snotty, condescending tone towards all things “Israeli” while embracing a vaguely defined concept of “justice” that is operationalized by the right to have a national army.

    Let me make it clear that my objection is not with the “content” per se. Israel is a racist state that has embraced the principle of “By Way Of Deception” on a global and frightening scale. I believe the US, Israel and NATO are the real axis of evil in our current world. Their goals go way beyond denying the Palestinian people a viable homeland and the extent of their willingness to engage in wholesale slaughter either directly or by proxy, has not yet been plumed.

    The Israeli people can be reached however as evidenced by the Breaking The Silence project. Similarly the American Jewish community can be reached. Mobilizing effective communication that under cuts the whole paradigm of divisiveness so central to the agenda of the NWO is crucial.

    The most powerful counter weapon we have is education and the core of that process must include not only an accurate history but also a powerful example on an emotional level of how a true multi ethnic state can function. The transition from a nuclear armed psychopathic Israeli state to something that truly embraces the welfare of all it’s people will only happen when we forge a living example “on the ground” that demonstrates that the people of the region can make it together.

    Until then, the emphasis on demonstrating that “justice” for the Palestinian people through force of arms or establishing the right to a legal arm will simply deliver more dead children and manipulated slaughters. I have no doubt that unless we substantially deconstruct the current paradigm a new Palestinian state will be undermined by the Mossad false flags. We’ve got to evolve a model of mature and effective action that takes the initiative out of the hands of those who weld the weapons on either side. A big thumbs up to courage and resistance and this is not a suggestion to “wait” for the oppressor to grant freedom to the oppressed. But let’s remember if we content ourselves with self absorbed narratives on either side of this situation we are not rising to the real challenge of the moment.

    • Hi Julian Metter,

      Thanks for the comment. I can appreciate constructive criticism of anyone, stylistic or substantive, if you think it’s helpful.

      I’m a little unsure about what kind of solution you envision and am curious about how you would answer the questions in my first comment above? It sounds like you think that a single, multi-ethnic state would be the goal, and that leading by example educates best. But, in your last paragraph, you talk about making sure we don’t undermine a new Palestinian state.

      Personally, I think that any side-by-side, two-state solution will be nothing but an apartheid state with a giant wall and checkpoints, like a prison, just as it is today. All the people in Occupied Palestine/Israel should be part of a single state. They need a constitution which protects minority speech, religion, etc., and provides representation for everyone. I think this, single state solution, is the only solution that scares the tyrants.

      • Julian Metter says:

        Hello Xicha,

        I do favor a single state solution though enormous steps on an inner level have to be taken before that could be achieved. The reference to a Palestinian state in the final paragraph was my way of playing out the inevitable conclusion that would occur if a two state solution was created that embraced a substantial military force as a sign of “true equality”. My point was that “justice” or “national dignity” can not be waved around in the abstract or become an invitation to doctrinaire pronouncements. Unless consciousness is changed, more blood will flow.

        I am not an expert but it seems to me that the real challenge is to make it clear that the underlying Jewish and Palestinian culture is fundamentally very compatible and that the new nation could honor and appreciate the strength that comes from a hybrid union of people. Rather then being ‘impossible” or “idealistic” I think this shift would be inevitable if the violence ended and contact between the parties opened on a broader level. Isn’t that what we saw beginning in the Geneva Agreement? We have to combat the tendency to demonize the other. Bring down the demonization, meet as people, take the power away from the government with its far right coalition partners and change can happen.

        Simply look at the journey that Miko Peled took. Obviously the guy had to be educated in order to open his eyes. Yet even with the loss of his niece, he could do it and now is very effective in speaking for a genuine transformation into a single state with real equality and justice for all.

        That is precisely why I feel the Palestinians need to break from the empty rhetoric and cycle of violence that has plagued the region. Yes I know that much of this violence was fomented by the US and psycho pathic Zionist/globalist financiers. Even as American’s we have our own issues to address with Israel and it’s history of ruthlessness whether that be the USS Liberty or 911. Yet in it’s own way 911 proves the point. The US, Israel and the Saudi’s were all in on it so who should we bomb in retaliation? Ourselves?

        Fighting the globalists primarily with violence falls right into their hands. I believe that a policy of rockets and tunnels leading into Israel is a betrayal of the Palestinian people and degrades their spirit. Resilience, networking amongst people of conscience and articulate unswerving courage is what is needed. If they broke with all the puppet masters and made it clear they intend to press their case without compromise or violence I would go myself to volunteer and help in any way I could. Many people would and that movement would filter quickly over to Israel itself. The rockets and tunnels sabotage that more powerfully then an Israeli air strike.

        • Won-a-pa-lei says:

          I know, right….why can’t those Palestinians just sit back and take their oppression quietly? I just can’t believe after all these years of being caged in like animals that they still have the energy to fight back. Sheesh! What’s wrong with them anyway?

          • –Continual fight for better representation, liberty, and justice in a single state in the region of conflict and occupation, from the ground up.

            how would you respond to my questions above? With individualism?

          • Won-a-pa-lei says:

            No, with sarcasm. How would you respond to being locked in a room with a rabid dog?

          • Not by Reading Any Rand. I’m sorry you won’t take seriously my request that you reconsider your former, possibly current, hyper individualism in the context of the plight of the Palestinians.

          • You hypothesizing that I’m in that cage alone with the dog. Or am “I” a group of people in your question?

            What if I/we get out and then find the idiots who are throwing firecrackers at the dog instead of chaining it up? Not like the cycle has been repeating enough times to figure out that the firecrackers aren’t actually killing the rabid dog. In fact it may be shooting then at itself, just to get pissed and go on another rampage.

          • Either way, that dog needs to be chained and a bunch of individualist voluntaryists are not going to get that work done, now are they?

            People need to utilize the tool of government to fight tyranny, which absolutely does use it. But, just as in the gun debate, some folks just can’t help blaming the tool.

          • And BTW, no one said “take their oppression quietly”, except you. I certainly didn’t.

          • Let’s see… Rabid dogs can’t lock doors or throw firecrackers. Hmm… Who owns or controls the rabid dog? Would the dog still be rabid if it didn’t get billions in annual military aid?

            Who’s really throwing those firecrackers? Who’s got their chips dipped in Hamas?

            NATO Chips w/American Cheese, dipped in Hamas?

  4. Julian Metter says:

    “NATO Chips w/American Cheese, dipped in Hamas?” That is exactly my concern. The NWO crowd has been doing violent “people’s movements” for a long, long time. The only “answer” to emerge from their peace process will be more of the same.

    Action however is possible. Breaking the blockade and building that sea port is a place where constructive defiance and courage can play a role. Blood will still be shed but people who are willing to sacrifice with non violent discipline to break an illegal economic stranglehold can not be marginalized as “terrorists”. Breaking the blockade could be a real priority and that doesn’t depend on “begging” Israel to be nice.

    Bottom line however, none of us have “the answer”. Opposing injustice and transforming that into a viable and creative process of life will not happen via someone’s canned formula. Many who start that journey won’t be around to finish it. That at least is no different that what we see now. Ultimately the solution must arise from contact between Palestinians and Israeli’s who move out of the paradigm and begin forging ties with each other. Again that’s what Miko Peled did.

    Neighbors will either learn to live with each other or it will forever be a basement filled with gasoline waiting for the next match.

    • Well said:

      Neighbors will either learn to live with each other or it will forever be a basement filled with gasoline waiting for the next match.

      Individual liberty and security requires the context of the public interest in liberty and justice for all.

      • Watch “Israel’s Operation Protective Edge Spurs Growth i…” on YouTube
        Israel’s Operation Protective Edge Spurs Growth i…: http://youtu.be/ZLxCZoUZeUw

        And each of us can voluntarily divest and/or force divestment through government of organizations, small and large. These students aren’t yet able to force divestment, but they are moving public opinion towards such government policy.

        Divestment as policy did affect the end of apartheid as policy in South Africa, as some governmental bodies adopted policies of divestment and sanctions.

  5. Individual, voluntary divestment from South Africa probably helped end the policy of apartheid there. But government policy of divestment and sanctions made a much more significant impact. Organizations large and small have governments that enforce policy.

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