Probable Cause with Sibel Edmonds: Uniting for a Revolution … and the Morning After

Welcome to our second experimental episode of Probable Cause. On this episode we will be delving deeper into our previous topic: clarifying which meaning of the word revolution we are basing this discussion on, using the Iranian Revolution of 1979 as an example and context to illustrate why revolution is not an end unto itself, discussing the upsides and pitfalls of uniting for a revolution both in the short and long term, and much more!

In our previous episode I provided a very brief account of my own direct experience with the Iranian Revolution of 1979. For this episode I will get down and dirty with more details and highly personal experiences, and challenge the USA version of the Iranian Revolution. I’ll talk about the Iranian dissenters during the Shah Regime: the intellectual elites, the workers’ movement, the nationalists, the centrists, and the ultra-religious right. I will tell you how the dissent went from simmering to percolating and boiling, and then reaching the point of radical revolution, and how and why differences were put aside for the common goal during the initial stage. And finally, I will give you the account of what took place the morning after … immediately after the initial objective was fulfilled-the regime change. Get ready, you will be listening to a version that is vastly different from the Hollywood movies and hostage-taking news footage and videos shoved-down your throat by the US media.

We will revisit our previous questions, and then some more. Just like last time, our next episode will be based on your reaction, responses and questions posed in the comments section below.

*To listen to our previous episode click here

Listen to the full episode here:

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Comments

  1. First, let me say, that was very good. Well produced and presented. Your story gave me an insight into your perspective, and it humanized the Iranian people, something we don’t get in the Homeland normally. Thank you.

    As for your question about the day after, here’s my simple, straight forward answer:

    THE ENDS MUST BE THE MEANS

    When we consider liberty and justice for all, as the goal, we can imagine the process of the revolution being one of accountability for the criminals and human rights for the public. That’s the keyword, for me. Public.

    I know there is more to discuss, but I would like to put the horse before the cart, and see what kind of feedback this basic starting point brings. I think the main enemy of this simple logic is extreme individualism, which has a philosophical hold on some who I think have been duped into setting aside their respect for the public.

    I look forward to feedback.

  2. Iosua Bray says:

    Thanks for providing us with a nuanced perspective on the events of the Iranian revolution, I’ve certainly never heard it explained that way before. The personal stories of tragedy you shared about the torture of your father and disappearance of your uncle really underscored the grim reality of it.

    I think things are still heating up in America. Its true that the overall majority is not at this boiling point however the simmering that I’ve seen taking place has been among a wide variety of political types and peoples. The fact that this simmering is dispersed among a diverse albeit numerically small amount of people is significant I believe. If I had to guesstimate, I’d say within a decade I could envision things reaching a boiling point.

    As to what things would look like post-revolution- I doubt that any sort of representative system would satisfy any of the various factions, just like in the Iranian revolution. I think a more workable solution that would keep the peace would be for different political-cultural regions to become autonomous, much like the colonial era states which had no central government but came together in defense pacts and to trade. That would allow Americas various groups to exist and operating freely per their own customs and norms rather than be subsumed under a top down federal system. The bill of rights/constitution in theory was supposed to protect everyone basics freedoms but in reality the tyranny of the majority or the whims of some president can change this in a heartbeat.

    By the way, there is a book written by Colin Woodard called American Nations which can provide some perspective on the distinct regions of america and history if people are interested.

    No worries on the name pronunciation, it sounds like Yo-sua as in yo dude 🙂

  3. John Phillips says:

    Very exciting!

  4. Dave Short says:

    Pardon my error, I’m new here, again. I posted replies to these questions in the FIRST Probable Cause forum, argh. I am copying and pasting it here as well, not that it’s worth repeating, just trying to stay consistent with the thread-timeline. I will do better.

    “Dave Short says:
    January 23, 2015 at 11:45 pm
    @Sibel:
    Your account of the 1979 revolution in Iran was fascinating and very enlightening. I would like to hear more about these types of personal experiences. I’m also very interested in the effect that the Iraq/Iran war had on the country. You mentioned that it had a unifying effect against a common enemy, would you kindly relate more specifics about that war in some future episode please?

    What were the economic/psychological/Religious ramifications? How did it effect the power structure in post Shah Iran? Were the Iranian people able to see the war as an extension of US Hegemony via Iraq? What’s it like being that close to a serious shooting war in a country that’s been peaceful for so long? What were the effects of the Scud missile attacks on Tehran etc. ? How was war “hysteria” used by the leaders for propaganda purposes?

    OK to your specific questions at the end of the podcast:

    Economy: Economics as a splintering factor rather than any sort of a unifying one.

    When/if there is a really catastrophic economic event, either real or contrived or as a part of economic warfare by say Russia or China against the US dollar; I believe that people in America will by in large go into survival mode and will be too busy scrounging food and security and dealing with the shock to do anything organized, especially at first. Crime as a means of survival and the worst aspects of anarchy will be the early effects when people can’t get enough food (OR medication). I think it’ll look a lot like New Orleans after Katrina all across the USA in the metropolitan areas. I suspect that FEMA and Military/Police units will be brought in to kettle entire cities and let them burn out for a month or so, while people who are willing to cooperate will line up to get on the buses to the FEMA relocation centers. That is certainly the way that mass policing maneuvers are shaping up in my view. Once the metropolitan centers are either disabled or under control, there will be more incursions into the country.

    If there is armed resistance, the rural areas are where I see it happening. In rural areas are larger concentrations of weaponry, some stockpiles of food and ammunition, more fundamental Christians, bigger militia groups with more serious training, some plans and more defensible spaces. I expect to see some serious brushfire revolutions throughout the USA in the wilder areas of the country. It will take on aspects of civil war when the propagandized people start to take sides against their own families and friends and the Stasi system will be implemented through them. Lots of frogs trying to climb out of the pot on top of each other’s heads. Grim, but that’s how I see that issue.

    “Simmering”:
    One place that Iran had a big advantage over us in America is (Correct me if I’m wrong here please) I doubt that there was a water fluoridation program and it was before the advent of SSRI type psychologically blunting drugs. Now as planned and confirmed by the CDC, over 70% of Americans are drinking, bathing in, washing their food with and watering their gardens with fluoridated water, and there’s really no knowing how the fluoride taps are being regulated or what the so called Fluoride actually contains and it’s a very persistent neurotoxin. In addition, about 20% of Americans are taking anti-depressant/mood altering drugs. So, given the evidence that Fluoridation decreases “Boiling” behavior, it looks like the powers that be can continue to turn up the heat without much danger of having a mass of frogs jumping out of the pot and organizing against them in any meaningful way.

    Then of course, we’re up against the massive propaganda and disinformation apparatus which is teamed up with Gladio type patsy operations to keep turning the heat up while stirring the pot rapidly and keeping the frogs going around in circles so even if they want to jump out, they’re too dizzy to find their way out of the pot.

    Perhaps this is why it does seem as if the “Simmering weight is going down” as you say. This speaks to the desensitization of the American population. It’s frustrating.

    And, regarding “immunization” even though I know it’s not exactly what you meant, the evidence that the medical profession exists primarily to support itself by creating disease, treating symptoms and pushing useless-harmful treatments like vaccines is making the population physically ill. We’re being preyed upon by a predatory “Medical care” industry. Sick people make poor revolutionaries in my opinion.

    Uniting for a major change aka revolution:
    Not on any kind of a nation wide scale, no. The United States is a huge and diverse land mass and also the population is segregated, segmented and without any focusing point (Except perhaps 911 I keep hoping) that would cause everyone to grab up pitch forks and torches and storm Washington DC, the Pentagon, the FED and the homes of the various ruling elites. Until such a time as they do actually start mass raiding of homes for activists or weaponry or dissent, it doesn’t look like there’s any flash point to rally around.

    And people are frightened I think. Those of us who are old enough to remember reading 1984 and Brave New World and Animal Farm in school are shaking our heads in slack jawed amazement at the police state tactics and the brutality that we’re seeing against people who are no threat. (People in wheel chairs, homeless, children in schools, veterans, etc..) Police training is to shoot first and don’t even bother to ask questions later. The courts are backing them up on this. Even the more militant people of which there are many groups-like the organized militias are reluctant to open fire because to do so is playing into the hands of those who WANT a reason to demonize “The people” and clamp down even harder ala Waco and the subsequent Oklahoma City Bombing (False flag).

    I’m afraid this all sounds very negative but all I can say is on the bright side, people who are studying these things ARE getting smarter and better informed and we all have families. American people are prepping to survive some sort of horrendous event, but I don’t see it resulting in a massive uprising like Iran barring some perceived outside enemy that has a unifying effect.

    If there’s a huge revolution I see it happening somewhere else and hopefully spreading globally. I’d be interested in your take on likely flash point countries and triggering events.

    I guess I didn’t realize that I was feeling so pessimistic until I started setting these thoughts down in the format you proposed.

    peace
    d”

    • Dave Short says:

      A brief further note on the above. I’ve been trying to locate a focal point that could result in some sort of revolutionary flash point that’s better than September 11, 2001. In Iran, it seems that you had Savak, the Shah and the CIA/Embassy as a point of national focus and agreement between the various factions. In the USA, I’m stuck on 911. Unfortunately, while I do believe that it is our one, potentially unifying issue in that everyone was so horrified, it seems that it may have been TOO horrific and too big of a Big Lie for a large portion of the American Public to deal with psychologically.

      For those who have come late to the 911 truth information, it’s nearly ancient history ala the JFK assassination. I assume many of these people fail to see or refuse to see the connections with all the myriad Domestic-police state/false flag/Gladio/Patsy/Terror/”Intelligence” operations taking place all around us. Those of us who insist on seeing these connections have been simmering so long that it appears the meat may be falling off the bones of some of us. Please forgive all the grim metaphors.

      There seems to be some sort of what I perceive as a Despair/Frustration/Anger/Confusion reaction going on and it is fed and complicated by the continual bombardment of the insane bad news that is all around us if we dig for it. Are we frogs part of a huge learning curve process for the real “Evildoers”? Or are we going to get out of the darn pot at some point, mass our forces and do whatever needs to be done?

      As for the question of “The morning after”… I truly have no clue, the problem is so massive, so entrenched and as you said in The Lone Gladio, “Gladio C” is already up and running. Without some sort of global movement I don’t see an exit. Is the emergence of any sort of Global anti-“Elite Bad guy”
      movement possible or would that play into the Globalist play book?

      I ask these questions, thinking out loud, because I am at the extreme limit of my analytical powers here.

      Peace on earth
      God bless us every one
      d

      • http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2015/01/23/probable-cause-with-sibel-edmonds-uniting-for-a-revolution-and-the-morning-after/comment-page-1/#comment-15510

        Any feedback about my suggestion above? Seems like we all could come together on more than the common enemy basis. In fact, I’m not sure I’d want to be part of a revolution that didn’t value the public/commons idea that we cannot own everything as individuals and some things are shared ownership/use/management. I’m trying to figure out what the most basic level of agreement exists or needs to exist, between the variety of perspectives Sibel mentioned constituting the BFP membership as a microcosm, and my comment above is that suggestion. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

        • Dave Short says:

          “When we consider liberty and justice for all, as the goal, we can imagine the process of the revolution being one of accountability for the criminals and human rights for the public. That’s the keyword, for me. Public.”

          Fully agree on this Xicha Getting there will be the trick. How to keep the people truly informed in this age of controlled media, distractions, false flags and propaganda etc. .

          When Sibel mentioned that the majority started slaughtering the minority revolutionaries after the Shah was removed, that argues against “the people” always having the right idea. This has been identified as a problem in the past “The tyranny of the masses” and is the main reason that a pure democracy is dangerous.

          How do you propose to avoid this without falling back on some authority like “The courts” to arbitrate and regulate us right back into line?

          peace
          d

          • Thanks, Dave.

            If the means are the ends, then we have a court that isn’t corrupt, we have media that tells the truth, etc. For me, each little piece we add is a piece of the revolution. So, BFP is the revolution, as are any other truthful, uncompromising media. Every judge who stands up against authority of the oligarchy, another piece. The more we add, the easier it gets for the rest. I think of the Oath Keepers as a revolutionary group, and they are simply being true to the oaths to protect the Constitution.

            I don’t want a revolution that simply destroys government and leaves a power vacuum. For one, it’s the wrong target; the oligarchy/ruling class is the true target. This isn’t an existential question about government. It is a part of the nature of relationships between people. Government and corruption are like oil and water – they don’t mix, they displace each other. In my view, we don’t currently have the government we’re taught we have. It has been replaced, but the ruling class was smart enough to stuff the dead carcass and let the people throw stones at it, as they sink deeper into slavery.

        • Dave Short says:

          Thanks, Dave.
          YOU’RE WELCOME XICHA. I WANT TO COMPLIMENT YOU ON YOUR WRITING SKILLS AND COMMENT WITHIN THEM (BELOW) IN CAPS, BETTER TO ADDRESS YOUR POINTS.

          YOU WROTE:
          If the means are the ends, then we have a court that isn’t corrupt, we have media that tells the truth, etc. IF THE MEANS ARE THE ENDS, THEN WE DO HAVE A WAYS TO GO TO GET TO THE MEANS, BUT I DO AGREE WITH YOU, WE HOLD THE HIGH GROUND AND WE HAVE THE NUMBERS. For me, each little piece we add is a piece of the revolution. So, BFP is the revolution, as are any other truthful, uncompromising media. Every judge who stands up against authority of the oligarchy, another piece. The more we add, the easier it gets for the rest. I think of the Oath Keepers as a revolutionary group, and they are simply being true to the oaths to protect the Constitution. I AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS. I GUESS TO HELP ME CLARIFY IT IN MY MIND, TO ME IT’S ALL ABOUT INTENTION. I AM AN OATHKEEPER MYSELF, AND I INTEND TO HOLD TO THE CONSTITUTION IN EVERY WAY I POSSIBLY CAN AND SUPPORT ANY ONE ELSE WHO DOES SO. IF I FALL SHORT SOMETIMES, IT’S WEAKNESS, NOT BAD INTENT OR WORKING AGAINST THE COMMON GOAL OF THE ENDS. I ACCEPT THAT I’M AN IMPERFECT CRITTER, TRY TO RECOGNIZE MY FAULTS AND WORK TO IMPROVE. SO I GUESS I’M AN “ENDS” IN PROGRESS.

          I don’t want a revolution that simply destroys government and leaves a power vacuum. For one, it’s the wrong target; the oligarchy/ruling class is the true target. ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I’VE DISCUSSED THIS WITH MILITIA PEOPLE BEFORE ON RADIO PROGRAMS. ONE OF THOSE PROGRAMS HAS AN ANNOUNCER WHO’S FOND OF SAYING “WHEN THINGS ACTUALLY KICK OFF, IT WILL BE LIKE MOOSE HUNTING SEASON, LOTS MORE LICENSES THAN THERE ARE MOOSE” BY THIS HE MEANS THAT, WE OUTNUMBER THEM. THE PROBLEM WITH THIS THINKING IS THAT A LOT OF INNOCENTS WILL GET SLAUGHTERED ALONG WITH THE MOOSE POPULATION. SO I LIKE TO ADD THIS CAVEAT: “IF YOU’RE GOING TO HUNT MOOSE, HUNT TROPHY MOOSE!” BY THIS I MEAN, THE ELITE, THEIR ILK AND THE TOP DOWN SYSTEM THAT KEEPS THEM IN POWER RATHER THAN THE LOW LEVEL WEAKLINGS WHO ENFORCE THEIR SYSTEM (EXCEPT IN SELF DEFENSE OF COURSE). I FOR ONE DO NOT EVER WANT TO HAVE TO KILL ANYONE OR EVEN DESTROY INFRASTRUCTURE IN SOME VIOLENT REVOLUTION, BUT I RECOGNIZE THAT SOME OF THAT WILL BECOME INEVITABLE WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT. THE LESS OF IT, THE BETTER. THE BETTER THE VIOLENCE IS TARGETTED AT THE REAL ENEMIES OF THE PLANET, THE BETTER. AND I WOULD ADD, THE MORE IT’S DONE WITHOUT EXTREME VIOLENCE AND THROUGH THE “MEANS COURTS” THE BETTER. IT STRENGTHENS THE COURTS, IT EXPOSES THE DEPTH AND BREADTH OF THEIR CORRUPTION AND IT IDENTIFIES THE UNDERLINGS WHO NEED TO BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE AS WELL. A SNIPERS BULLET OR AN ANARCHISTS BOMB DOES NEITHER OF THESE AND INSTEAD TENDS TO SUPPORT THE PROPAGANDA THAT “TROOFERS/OATHKEEPERS/CONSTITUTIONALISTS/EIEIO” ARE RADICAL, CRAZED CRIMINALS WHO NEED TO BE EXTERMINATED. THAT IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, SO IN THAT LIGHT THE INFO-REVOLUTION/WAR IS MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE. AND, I’M PROUD TO BE A PART OF IT AND PROUD TO KNOW THOSE THAT ARE. IT GIVES MEANING TO MY EXISTENCE AND GIVES ME A LITTLE PEACE KNOWING THAT I’M RESISTING A CORRUPT SYSTEM THAT I’M PARTIALLY TO BLAME FOR ALLOWING TO GET THIS STRONG. This isn’t an existential question about government. It is a part of the nature of relationships between people. EXACTLY. SEE ABOVE. Government and corruption are like oil and water – they don’t mix, they displace each other. THIS, I DON’T KNOW ABOUT. I GUESS THE KIND OF GOVERNMENT I COULD SEE A PERSON LIKE RON PAUL WORKING SUCCESSFULLY IN, SURE. A GOVERNMENT LIKE WE HAVE NOW WHICH IS SUFFUSED WITH DIRTY MONEY AND PEDOPHILIA AND BLACKMAIL AND OUTRIGHT EXTORTION IS REALLY JUST ORGANIZED CRIME AND THEY GOVERN BY FORCE. POWER TENDS TOWARD FORCE AND IT’S DIFFICULT TO KEEP IN CHECK, SO, HOW THAT IS TO BE DONE IS THE QUESTION. In my view, we don’t currently have the government we’re taught we have. BOY HOWDY. It has been replaced, but the ruling class was smart enough to stuff the dead carcass and let the people throw stones at it, as they sink deeper into slavery. A VERY GOOD METAPHOR AND A NEAT THOUGHT. THAT THE ELITE HAVE TURNED THE GOVERNMENT INTO JUST THE FIGUREHEAD OF THIS CORRUPT SYSTEM THAT THEY’VE GORGED THEMSELVES ON AND FOR US TO TARGET WHILE THEY WALLOW AND SNORT ELSEWHERE. AS FOR SINKING INTO SLAVERY, SLAVERY BEGINS IN ONE’S MIND. FREEING THE MIND IS WHAT IT’S ALL ABOUT. “FREE YOUR MIND, YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW” WAS AND IS A GOOD SLOGAN TO MEASURE ONE’S SLAVERY BY.

          XICHA. I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK. YOU MAKE ME THINK.
          PEACE AND GOD BLESS US
          EVERY
          ONE
          D

          • Cool, Dave, and right back at you. Thank you for being an Oath Keeper and sharing your well considered thoughts. Much appreciated.

      • Phillip Kokesh says:

        Very well said (and equally well written), Dave.

        • Dave Short says:

          Thanks Phillip

        • Dave Short says:

          @Ron, have heart. This is far from over, and those of us who are old enough to remember the 60’s and/or have been battling the 911 issue since it happened are feeling a bit of shell shock I think.

          Americans have been lab rats in a maze designed by Nazi psychologists and “Intelligence” agencies and propaganda organs. We’ve been KEPT from the truth and we fell asleep after the Vietnam debacle and the scapegoating of Nixon. The information revolution is helping change that, so I have hope. I wrote much more but it got accidentally deleted so I will end on that note.

          peace and God bless us every one.
          d

  5. Xicha,

    I for one agree with the base idea of the “commons”. This is not a far out idea among many people who live in rural American – at least the parts of it I live in. Since we have been in a time of increased natural disasters, many of the public are finding that when they need help from the government, it is either very slow in coming or non-existent. The good news in that is those folks have reawakened their common interests and eagerly help each other – no questions asked. They even talk about this and move toward more of the same – not just when disasters strike. I’m not saying everyone is on-board with this idea, but it is gaining in strength. However, I have no idea about larger metropolitan areas and how this would play out there. I do communicate with people in other places in the world who are doing the same thing. Don’t know if that answers your question, but that’s my feedback. Thanks for the question.
    Dennis

    • Thanks, Dennis. What I meant by ‘commons’ is property that is owned and managed by the public, as in the government. at whatever level is appropriate. of course, people can also have private property, but, some property should be public.

      The same goes for certain resources and industry. Private prisons, for instance, represent a conflict of interest that is a threat to the public interest in liberty. The airwaves and natural resources,on which the public depends, should also be publicly owned, IMO.

    • Dave Short says:

      Dennis: Agreed. I live near a wilderness area and I see people helping each other. Family units and associated friends banding together. I once sat in at a poker game where I didn’t really know anyone. I just threw this out; “If the time comes when they come to round up the guns, will you give yours up?” Seven strangers came up with NO! and HELL NO! It was unanimous.

      This gives me hope because regardless of whether or not guns get used in any sort of revolution, they are resistance in the system even when they just sit clean, loaded and unused. I believe that without this mass of armed citizenry we would be a lot farther down the Elite’s timeline for a “One world government”. And this is why I think the USA is being targeted with so much police state intensity (Which will fail as soon as serious firefights start up) because so many police and military are now oathkeepers either openly or privately.

      The cities. Perhaps in neighborhoods/school districts, outlying suburbs and the like resistance is more organized. Inner cities, I don’t have much hope for. But, I could be wrong, look at all the “Hoods” where you’ve got some very rough young people who are well armed, not afraid and into protecting their turf and people. Basically gangs are just extended families and hopefully they won’t be coopted by “The man” and turned against the people.

      peace and
      God bless us
      Every
      One
      d

  6. Ross Flowers says:

    The exact ideological spin of a potential US revolution is difficult for me to predict and IMO will probably be the wagging tail on the dog anyway. The most likely method by which it would jump off, though, would be some kind of clash between citizens and the gendarmerie / garrison troops that have replaced the police on a higher quantum level than we’ve seen thus far. Perhaps it could be something like Sibel was speculating in #1 where an Occupy or Ferguson type outbreak breaks into gunfire and several dozen people are indiscriminately shot down. Perhaps a ‘Dorner+’ scenario where one of these routine ‘cop guns down man/woman/child/old lady/dog’ incidents ends in return fire and casualties and balloons into an Iraq-type house-to-house search-and-destroy where more shots are exchanged, more people die, etc. Anyway, that’s the way I most likely see things jumping off – armed civil conflict between some elements of some town and its police force, where the Feds (of course) side with the police, the body count rises high enough for some non-completely-trivial element of the political class to break ranks, and a few arguments start to break out into the mainstream media that are still presently verboten. What happens from there, I have no idea.

    • Dave Short says:

      Ross:

      Myself, I see it kicking off with a false flag event. It will be something pretty big, on screen, live and in your face/prime time. I expect it will utilize patsies who will be identified with “Constitutionalists/gun nuts/ Troofers/and some ISIS” group led by a bunch of FEDS (as usual). I think they’ll go for the biggest possible splintering effect ala the OKC bombing that targeted the militias and I believe that a lot of people will buy into it and turn against their friends/neighbors/family. I hate thinking this way, but there it is.

      The “Rulers” are going to want to start things off with a bang and with the shock and awe factor in play. And, unfortunately, it WILL work on some level (See Je Suis Charlie). It saddens me, but they didn’t spend all those billions of dollars finding humanity’s hot buttons to not use them.

      peace, a better idea
      d

  7. Excellent, and very very useful story. My understanding of that historic pivotal event is increased tenfold. All the loose ends are now connected to their proper place.

    I’d love to post the whole thing, but, I’ll post the teaser at least. That will interest many. Maybe I’ll quote a couple of pungent paragraphs. have to listen once or twice more.

  8. Sibel: I’m glad you defined the term “Revolution”. Interestingly, your definition “no.2”–“-a radical and pervasive change in society and the social structure, especially one made suddenly and often accompanied by violence,” indicates we might be looking at the same huge dictionary(Random House–Unabridged Ed.) The “no.1” definition is “a complete and forcible overthrow of an established government or political system”. What interests me about these definitions(and there are others), in particular, are the terms FORCE and VIOLENCE.
    It was a marvelous thing to hear your own experience and analysis of the Iran Revolution 1978-79! Your very life translates to having an abstract term(i., e., Revolution) into some EXISTENTIAL–blood, guts, and fear-filled existence on a daily basis. Most Americans have no clue about such existential behemoths.

    A couple of major points regarding 20th century Revolutions:
    Obviously, we must go beyond the dictionary definition to answer the question of whether or not “Americans” are ready to revolt? As you described your experience of one of the main 20th century revolutions, it becomes clear that there are at least 3 major existential conditions: 1. Pre-revolutionary conditions–a very complicated sweep of fragmented. often contradictory movements. 2. The actual bursting out of force, resistance, killing, mayhem, violence, etc. until it finally ceases. 3. The post-struggle period–which in some cases may involve never-ending lines of dialectical struggle. Take a glance at some of some of the major revolutions of the 20th century. Note how long they lasted. Note how many died and were injured, became refugees… And most importantly for me, at least, what was or is the condition of the country now?? THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION,
    THE CHINESE MAOIST REVOLUTION, THE MEXICAN REVOLUTION, AND THE SPANISH CIVIL WAR/REVOLUTION.
    One is completely stunned when you see the numbers!!
    If I consider the broad sweep of America now, I see absolutely no hope whatsoever for a large scale revolution. None. I see too many sleeping humans unconsciously in denial about the Fascist Police State which they are a part of. Propaganda is all pervasive
    I should mention I was born in 1940 and lived in Berkeley, Ca. during 60s and 70s. There was crazy police brutality, some deaths across the country, tear gas and Martial Law for two weeks in Berkeley. I thought maybe this actually was the beginning of a revolution. It was exciting and many of us felt something was happening. Soon, realty sunk in. One must come to grips with the fact that one’s life may be smeared away like an insect on the windshield if a REAL REVOLUTION is necessary for one to plunge ahead. Look at your brave father. One doesn’t normally meet persons of that stature and intensity/integrity.
    If there are tens of thousands dying in our streets at government/corporate hands, maybe then…
    THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING THERE SIBEL!

  9. Hmmm…
    ( King Abdullah died at 90. )…
    Kind Regards
    Jens.

  10. At the root of “American Exceptionalism” is the denial – via propaganda – in the American mind of the inscrutable realities of human nature. The American empire is as evil as any and is only remarkable in its typical and storied American efficiency. Sibel makes the important historical point that in Iran, once the Shah and his corrupt regime was deposed by the unprecedented coalition of fed-up Iranians, the power vacuum was brutally re-consolidated by the most powerful faction. Are things better in Iran today for the typical Iranian? My guess would be ‘yes’, though I’d defer to Sibel and others more knowledgeable on that.

    When we speak of “revolution” I think we are talking about the condition of the typical citizen. I could give a rat’s ass about the condition of the elite as they remarkable mostly in their ability to look after themselves and their own interests.

    Terrorism is theatre. 9/11 was grand theatre in service of the big agenda — a sort of Theatre du Gran Guignol (“The audience at “Le Théâtre du Grand-Guignol” endured the terror of the shows because they wanted to be filled with strong “feelings” of something.” — wiki). Theatre moves the masses, but does not alter human nature. Progress can and likely will be made in the near term as we attempt to dismember this grotesque and intrusive security state, but conspiracy to seek privilege and advantages will always and immediately be afoot — again, human nature.

    I have never been religious and I don’t mention this in any proselyting nor dogmatic way, but I think I’ve come to what might be termed a traditional conservative view (and I’d always viewed myself “liberal”!) that “salvation” (choosing light over dark, truth over lies, acknowledging temptation and evil) is an individual matter. Whether it’s of 9/11, Global Warming or “the crisis de jure”, these all represent attempts of a sort to baptize the community as a whole with its attendant propaganda — and it never works, though it may work for some elite agenda. Salvation is a individual choice and matter, IMHO.

    In the 60s there was an intriguing British TV series called The Prisoner. Each episode opened with Patrick McGoohan (“number 6”) running and trying to escape and retire from his secret agent job. A voice from on high could be heard:

    McGoohan: “What do you want?”
    Voice: “We want information.”
    McGoohan: “Whose side are you on?”
    Voice: “That would be telling.”
    McGoohan: “Who are you?”
    Voice: “The new number 2.”
    McGoohan: “Who is number 1?”
    Voice: “You are, number 6.”

    It’s all in where one places the comma in number 2’s last answer — YOU ARE, number 6.

    • At the heart of American Exceptionalism is also learned hyper-individualism, bootstraps and all. You say that conspiracy to gain privilege and advantage is natural. I would say only as much as creating a system for the creation and enforcement of rules is natural. You say that salvation is an individual matter. That’s why we need to ensure that everyone has the liberty to think.

      In reality, individualism and collectivism both exist and are natural. They each have a place and can be balanced. One thing about revolution, from my perspective, is that it is continual and eternal. The ends can never stop beingthe means, if tthey are the same.

      • “In reality, individualism and collectivism both exist and are natural. They each have a place and can be balanced.”

        I completely agree with this view- mirrors my own. Either extreme can be detrimental.

        Also, YES to continual & eternal. Absolutely. Your philosophical last sentence can end up being several episode worth of discussion. It also reminds me of Jefferson’s quote about revolutions (small & big) need to be continual.

      • Xicha,
        The denial of what has been called “original sin” — or what Zen lecturer Alan Watts softened as “Irreducible Rascality” — is what I’m addressing when I speak of the American delusion of “American Exceptionalism.” America is in denial of its own corruption, cruelty and greed in its motives as a nation This notion is sold very hard while the truth is that there exists a bit of a rascal in everybody and in all nations.

        I very much agree that community action and formation is a natural state, but I think ‘waking up’ is an individual matter — each of us has to find his/her way, otherwise it won’t stick. The Amish allow their young to wander into the greater world and see what it offers before making a commitment to their community, its way of life and its dictates — those who return have made a conscious choice to live ‘the Amish way’ and it sticks.

        The Bill of Rights largely took account of the human tendency to corrupt and sought to codify some protection, which is why those who now control the levers are seeking to dismantle its dictates and lock in THEIR gains.

    • Peter, some excellent observations. You are right: as far as the religious right majority went/goes, they consider the state of ‘things’ better. All the other groups: no. And that’s why we try to emphasize not viewing the ‘revolution’ as an end point.

      In our next episode I will be providing my own answer (prediction/guess based on my own lens- which is far from being ‘Guru Expert’ with answers;-)

  11. John Phillips says:

    Hi Sibel and All
    Reading the other posts makes me think we still have questions about what we are writing about here. I heard two questions; 1) will there be a revolution in the near future and 2) where will it come from and who will lead. Some have jumped into the conditions after the revolution. Okay, maybe three questions.

    I don’t think there will be a full scale government replacing revolution in the United States, not in the near future. We will be hollowed out like a pumpkin at Halloween long before we realize what has happened to us as a nation and a people. Note what we have already lost since 911 without revolution.

    I was around during Kent State and the protests against the war in Vietnam at that time. Students shot down on campus by our National Guard. No revolution came to pass. The hippies of the day now wear three piece suits and drive BMW’s. Coopted by the very institutions they once fought against.

    The poor are placated by food stamps, big screen TV and their situation is made worse by a poor education that has left them void of critical thinking skills and the ability to defend themselves. The middle class, what is left of us, are just trying to keep what we have and not lose any more ground.

    The majority of the population are “Christian” therefore, they are likely to turn the other cheek long before they revolt and if they do…the Christian Right are poised very nicely to fill the vacuum that our revolution would bring and I think intend to do so. The Christian Right seems to support this religious war we are now engaged in, killing Muslims and supporting BB and the Israel government. The Christian right welcome a nuclear war with Iran….”it will bring Armageddon.”

    We are a dumbed down, lazy population of duped citizens (for the most part). We believe what our government and the media tells us. We are warped by the news, daytime TV, violent movies and a society run by sociopathic individuals and groups.

    Look at the facts. The majority of people in the US watch and believe FOX, CNN and MSMBC. Only about 8% of the populations listen to NPR or PBS. And NPR and PBS news outlets have become corrupt as well. The people who pursue BFP and other credible alternative news (not religious in content) are even fewer in number. How will any critical mass ever be reached with these numbers?

    So, no I don’t think revolution is in the cards and if there were a revolution it will end like all have ended in the last decade….the financial institutions (banks), corporations and governments around the world will strangle it, the religious right will step into the void. The sociopaths or Galdio will be left behind to “f” things up big time in the aftermath. We will really be trouble then. Just like in Iran.

    My two cents worth
    Best Regards
    John

    • Hi John,

      In my opinion:

      That’s why the revolution should be aimed at the ruling class establishment oligarchy, not “the government” per se. Getting rid of corrupted officials is not the same thing as getting rid of the offices, although the Gladio office in the Pentagon would surely go down with the criminals who run it.

      This is a continuous process and each instance of accountability or informing the public is a revolutionary step on an eternal path of revolutionary existence. We can consider ourselves as living in a revolutionary democratic republic.

      • Dave Short says:

        @John:
        I relate to your pessimism although I disagree with your opinion of the mass media being the biggest information source for Americans. It’s the (Increasingly coopted) but still viable internet for now and by far- in my opinion. I also disagree with the theory that the Christian right will step into the void with some political agenda that is essentially Neocon in nature.

        Israel is under attack for it’s policies world wide and even the LAME stream media has to admit it occasionally. I’m not really a Christian (Believer) but I do think Christ had some great ideas. The Christians you refer to would be the same ones you would see on TV and they’re not much different from the Dual Israeli/American citizens in control of the government at the moment.

        Lastly, RE: “The hippies”. The area of remote Northern California is AWASH with hippies and I have yet to see a three piece suit. You may be thinking of Yuppies. The hippies I know may not be very motivated to do anything (At least until they run out of weed or snack foods) but they do know a lot of anti-establishment information and share it willingly. I say this knowingly having been a hippy myself back in the Nixon era. Now I consider myself more of a Bippie. When people get hungry and desperate, the wheat will be separated from the chaff and then I guess we’ll see, until then brother, keep the faith!

        @Xicha: I wish we had a like button in this forum.

      • John Phillips says:

        Xicha
        Thank you for your response. Yes, if and when a revolution comes to pass it should be focused on the ruling class and not our bought out government. I just figure with our dumbed down populace there will never be enough “awareness” to start a revolution.

        The only hope I have is that each of us in our own way decide to rebel. Rebel by buying off the grid, buying from local merchants (not Big Box), avoiding taxes when possible, keeping “your own” rules and not those of the corporations, saying “No” at your place of work if they require you to go against your values. And help those in need. Two weeks ago instead of giving money, I bought a homeless woman lunch. The best thing I’ve done in a long time!

        Dave;
        Thanks to you as well.

        The hippies of the 1960 were often of white, intellectual, with a middle class up bringing…. probably much like yourself The hippies you speak of today are referred to as “grunge” not hippies. I didn’t see much in them when I lived in Oregon for five years.

        Most of the hippies of our day now wear different attire. Rhetorically speaking, you were once a hippy…now you are… a professional, own a suit, close to retirement? Maybe. Few hung on to the counter culture movement of the day.

        These are different times, in a Nation where most of the people are literally brainwashed in the “Matrix” and have little or no interest in unplugging.

        Yes, I would like to see the change that we all “hope” would come; however, given the likelihood of who would fill the leadership void and lessons learned in Iran, I hold no hope of success if it ever comes down to it.
        All the Best
        John

        • John, I will add ‘homeschooling’, challenging the ‘indoctrination’ of the next generation to your list. Agreed on ‘each of us in our own way decide to rebel …’ notion.

        • Here are two videos I came across today. They show a very distinct difference in the perspectives of different philosophies. One of them, with our great BFP partner, James Corbett, actually upsets me, as have all the other similar “Let’s buck the system and buy land in South America” videos I’ve seen (Gulch, anyone?) It shows people with apparently no problem travelling the world and/or buying property, and totally disconnected from the reality our public is facing. Simply self-serving and being self-righteous about it.

          The other video shows what the people in Greece have just done, which matches much of the sentiment that’s been occurring on this post/conversation.

          Please take a look and see if the contrast impacts you. Thanks:
          1. Acapulco Anarchy Conference
          Jeff Berwick Invites You to Anarchapulco: http://youtu.be/qWDh5RvMn_w
          2. Greece
          Greek Revolution Against Corruption – Will We Follow? Russell Brand The …: http://youtu.be/Nd-neB369pw

          PS – I could take or leave Mr. Brand, but thought he did a great job reporting the news from Greece and giving it some context. Ignore his humor if you don’t care for it. Not saturated with it.

  12. andrei_tudor says:

    I will try to give a short account of the Romanian revolution of 1989, and while I cannot hope to be as eloquent as Sibel, I believe this information to be worth sharing, if for no other reason, to at least clarify some misconceptions people here seem to have about the communist societies.

    Romania in 1989 was basically a prison. There was no freedom of expression whatsoever, no possibility for organized dissent or opposition to the Communist party, no opportunity to think up strategies for revolution or plan outcomes for a post communist world. Indeed, there was no realistic hope for a post communist world. The country was divided along one line only, the rulers and the ruled, all other divisions along class lines, or religious lines being minor and insignificant in comparison. The repressive apparatus was omnipresent, or at least this was the popular perception – the slightest unorthodox comment could result in a visit from Securitate, and once in their radar, the safety net was broken and any outcome was possible. Movement in and out of the country was tightly controlled – most people who managed to escape did so at great personal risk and risk to their families. Many were shot while trying to cross the border into Hungary, or swim across the Danube into Yugoslavia.

    Economically, the country was in tatters. The basic necessities were severely lacking – food was scarce, heating and water in residential buildings were severely rationed. I don’t believe that they were intentionally withheld from people, I think that the economic situation was so disastrous and management so incompetent they they simply could not be provided any longer. No individual economic freedom was allowed for people to take matters into their own hands – the whole economy was locked in a tightly controlled central planning mechanism. Private enterprise did not exist. To give you an example, I remember my grandmother sneaking meat into the house in the middle of the night as if it as a contraband item – and indeed it was, private slaughtering of animals would land people in prison for sabotaging the working class.

    Abortions were not allowed, contraceptives did not exist, and yet having more than two children was economically suicidal because raising a larger family would be very difficult given the lack of food and other basic necessities. As a result many women died trying to have illegal abortions (my mother almost did). There is a very good Romanian movie about this – Four months, three weeks, two days – if you have a chance, watch it. I went to see it and came out of the theater with my stomach tied up in knots, so vividly did it bring back memories.

    All of what I’ve described above, and probably many other points that I’ve missed, had one major positive effect, in my mind, which is that they united the country against the repressive leadership – as I’ve said above, all other divisions among the population were blurred and insignificant – so that when the moment came, the police state collapsed very quickly. There were attempts by the regime during the revolution to play factions of the population against one another, but they all failed. Workers were sent from other parts of the country to quash the incipient revolution in Timisoara, and they switched sides once they got there. Soldiers refused to shoot the demonstrators (for the most part).

    For an actual chronology of the events during the revolution, the Wikipedia page does a pretty good job.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Revolution

    I’ve read claims that the revolution was not an actual revolution at all, but a staged coup, part and parcel of the mission of conquest the West has undertaken against the rest of the world. I have no doubt that the West wanted the communist regime gone, so that they could penetrate the country economically, take its resources, and turn the population into indebted consumers. There are certain unexplained events that happened during the uprising (snipers shot into the crowd for a few days after Ceausescu was gone, killing hundreds of people, and then, at one point, suddenly stopped and disappeared off the face of the earth – none were ever found) that point to organized destabilization techniques. The shooting into the crowd in Ukraine during the recent coup has an eerie resemblance to that. So yes, there is plausible evidence that the events were sparked and guided by external forces – but there is no truth to the claim that the people were manipulated into wanting to rid themselves of Ceausescu and of communism. I can tell you that at the time almost everybody in the country wanted Ceausescu dead, and believed communism to be scourge of the earth. The only reason people did not rise up sooner is that they were too afraid of the consequences, and they did not believe they had any chance of success. The fall of the communist regimes in the surrounding countries changed that context.

    • 344thBrother says:

      andrei:
      Thank you for your insightful piece on the Romanian revolution. I was tempted to copy the entire thing, paste it here and respond point by point in capitol letters to those points you raised that parallel the USA today, but what’s the point? I can do it much quicker this way:

      THE WHOLE DARN THING. And so what you posted gives me a lot of hope. It seems that Romania had none of the advantages that we have (In particular the internet and people willing and able to still speak out, for now), and all of the disadvantages in spades. Nobody saw a revolution coming and yet it happened, organically, among a disarmed population who couldn’t communicate with eachother, were vastly spied upon and threatened by military might.

      The main difference I got from it was that the people had a specific focus for their hatred (Ceausescu) and Americans don’t.

      Please keep more information on Romania coming andrei, it’s fascinating. Also I found this on Youtube:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qne_SOYzdmo
      4 Months 3 Weeks And 2 Days 2007
      by Jin Chang

      I’ll be watching that with interest. Thanks again friend.
      Peace on earth
      Good will to all men (Includes women, children and critters)
      d

      • andrei_tudor says:

        David,

        One observation I would make is that the ability to communicate cuts both ways: yes, we can expand our knowledge and we can organize more efficiently, but we can also be spied upon more easily, our strategies can be preempted, the release valves that the establishment provides for us can be tailored more precisely. Ceausescu and others like him from that era could not get into people’s minds, and consequently they did not know when to back off and give people breathing space to avoid a crash. Now they do, but in the end, I think the crash will come all the same.

        I came across this fascinating article a couple of days ago:
        https://medium.com/@NafeezAhmed/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e
        Ostensibly, it’s about the making of Google, but I found the second part more interesting, which talks about information warfare in general, warfare aimed at capturing the minds of the people. The article links to research papers published by influential characters in the establishment, the kind of papers that lead to formulation of the information warfare strategies that we are subjected to.

        I will quote from one such paper titled “Strategic Communication in Irregular Wars”, authored by one Amy Zalman of the infamous SAIC.

        “In an earlier era of mass media largely controlled by governments or powerful media magnates, audiences were often passive recipients of communication through a limited number of media channels, such as television, radio, an the press. Communicating with civilian audiences (at least in theory) was a matter of promoting or restricting audience access to particular messages. And, while information and propaganda might be seen as playing important roles in political conflict, the limited number of channels and those who had access to them made the process – if not the content – of communication a relatively straightforward matter.

        The expanded availability of satellite television in 1990s began a process of eroding governments’ abilities to control the flow of information across their borders. The World Wide Web has sped that erosion further by enabling real-time global dissemination of text, images, and video across national and linguistic borders. The weakening of government control is matched by a strengthening of individuals’ ability to shape the communications environment.”

        The article goes on to propose solutions to the problem, basically new methods of fooling people that keep pace with the new “communications environment”. They don’t mince words when they talk among themselves, do they?
        What transpires is that the free flow of information is a challenge for the establishment. The whole article can be found here:
        https://www.academia.edu/275113/Strategic_Communication_in_Irregular_Wars

        And yes, that is the movie I was referring to.

  13. So yes, there is plausible evidence that the events were sparked and guided by external forces – but there is no truth to the claim that the people were manipulated into wanting to rid themselves of Ceausescu and of communism.>>

    Who cared or cares about what people want or don’t want? Only those who have power matter. People by definition are powerless, otherwise no system of exploitation would’ve been possible. Secondly, you say that they wanted to rid themselves from something or someone. Suppose it was so. But was their wanting enlightened? Did they know exactly what they wanted instead of Ceausescu and “communism”? And if they by some miracle did, did they know how realistically they could make it true? And even whether it was worthy to want what they wanted (become an average square West European)? Did even such thing as ‘people’ exist in Romania and elsewhere? I mean the people who have common dreams based on common interests? How could such a people exist at all in a class based society? Today, 25-30 years later, many of those who have been lucky to survive their dream come true–Romanians, Poles, East Germans, Czechs, Russians, Ukrainians and on–look back with nostalgia for the days of “communism.” But the train has left and now to make even a small step towards it will take no less sacrifices than previous revolutions. Mass political enlightenment is the first precondition for a progressive social change, that is for gaining even a little piece of power for the people, a tiny beachhead to hold on and fight another day. Thus this question must be asked first: What Is Enlightenment? And today, reading Kant’s essay alone won’t answer it.

  14. 344thBrother says:

    I would like to take a moment to describe a revolution that is currently in progress in the USA and is winning.

    Legalization of marijuana for medical use:
    Legalization of marijuana for recreational use:
    The revolution against the “War on drugs” and the associated prison industrial complex.
    The revolution against the medical establishment and “Big Pharma”

    I’ll focus on the Legalization of marijuana for medical use in brief, but that battle has led to the spin off these additional revolutions.

    Disclaimer: Understand that I have smoked marijuana on occasion since I was a teenager. It’s not my drug of choice. Caffeine is. Marijuana makes me fuzzy headed and unwilling to do much but think about stuff and laugh and listen to music. Not bad things, just not productive. When I do (rarely) smoke it’s one or 2 puffs and that’s it. It’s dose related and if I start to have trouble focusing or dozing off, I know I’ve got too much. I have taken it internally for medical issues and after a month or 2 of dealing with the side effects, when the symptoms abated, I stopped. In my career I was a paramedic for 20 years in a rural area and I’m also a certified “Injury Prevention Specialist Research Fellow” trained by the Indian Health Service. I’ve been functionally retired since 911. So, that is my personal bias.

    The Marijuana Revolution:
    It began, basically as an illegal black-market, primarily on the west coast and has propped up California’s economy for decades. In the Sixties, it was a felony to merely smoke marijuana, but so many people did it and shared it that there was this tidal wave of use and information that just kept coming in and spreading across the country.

    The “War on drugs” was largely focused on marijuana because so many people started growing their own (And selling it) that there was no longer any real profit motive or control by the CIA et al and it seriously ate into their market share. Even though the laws were harsh, the Federal, State, County and City police apparatus was mobilized (Including military type raids using helicopters and fully automatic weaponry) people continued to smoke it, grow it, sell it, share it and talk about it.

    Eventually it reached critical mass and a referendum was passed in California that medical marijuana would be allowed with very strict guidelines. Those guidelines were vastly ignored as a huge black market “Medical marijuana” industry sprang up and the usual fascist/War on drugs attempts to stop it had almost no affect at all. The illegal black-market REALLY took off after that. California is now literally FLOODED with marijuana from “Medical marijuana grow operations”. Now it’s spread to 20 states, including DC! Recreational marijuana is legal in some states and functionally legal in most states because the Federal government has pretty much thrown in the towel.

    So, for many reasons, including that it’s good medicine for a lot of people (And free to grow thus hated by big Pharma) marijuana has conquered a huge segment of America, put a huge hole in the war on drugs, forced the prison systems into some capitulations, saved the economy of California (For now) and resulted in a lot of revolutionary thought and anti-government action. This in the face of the best efforts by the police state, the pharmaceutical industry, the propaganda arms of the State local and Federal government, bogus research and a vast conspiracy to keep the medical benefits quiet.

    One example here then I’m done: In California prior to the advent of legalized medical marijuana, two brain trauma research and treatment centers conducted twin independent studies. Each study chose 800 patients of severe brain trauma who were admitted to their facilities. 400 patients received all the usual treatment and care. 400 received “High dose cannabinoids” as soon as possible after their injury plus the usual treatment and care. Both studies had mirror like results.

    THE PATIENTS WHO RECEIVED HIGH DOSE CANNABINOIDS IN BOTH STUDIES DID 41% BETTER AT OUTCOME. 41%. Yet these figures are still hidden from the public, paramedics still don’t carry cannabinoids to treat head injuries, emergency rooms don’t carry them, even the military whose primary mechanism of non-death producing injuries are closed head injuries don’t provide them, doctors don’t prescribe them for head injuries and there are NO OTHER DRUGS that have this effect. NONE. NOT EVEN CLOSE. I discovered this data long ago and have since been unable to re-locate those original studies, but as a career paramedic, I was fascinated by this information. How is this even possible?

    Nevertheless, with this level of control over information that is SO IMPORTANT, the revolution continued and succeeded. So, for that, I have hope. Now, due to countless independent studies it’s widely known that marijuana is neuro-protective but the medical establishment is still “Reluctant” to get on board with it, so, people have to do what they need to do for themselves and their loved ones.

    Conclusion:
    The point of all this isn’t that “Marijuana is good, smoke lots of it!” or anything of the sort. The facts speak for themselves and like any drug marijuana can be abused. The point is that revolutions can start in the most unexpected of ways, develop quietly and obtain a life of their own even in the face of organized and massive opposition including fascist punishments and propaganda. To me, this is hopeful. To me, this is sort of the same effect that the internet is having and will continue to have. It’s a tidal wave that has swept across the world and there’s nothing that can be done to stop it now. The information is out there and it won’t go away now.
    Long ago, I read a short story by Heinlein or Wells or one of those science fiction authors who had a premise that “Wars were no longer possible because global communications were so pervasive and instant that they couldn’t get away with it any more” I see that with the internet, case in point, false flag terrorism.
    “As my friend Jimmy Pineapple used to say “Case F-ing closed!” Bill Hicks

    Viva la Revolucion!
    and Peace on earth
    d

    • Yes 100% AGREED Let’s UNITE to DECRIMINALIZE CANNABIS/MARIJUANA!

      This is so obvious. We can grow our OWN medicine!

      For any “sober” minded folk, DRINKING THE JUICE EXTRACTED FROM CANNABIS LEAVES DOES NOT GET YOU HIGH, but it does boost your immune system!

      Let’s not let the statists/neocons/neoliberals/zionazis divide us! Let us focus on HEALING first! Then as we heal physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, the REVOLUTION will grow in dimension!

  15. Playing catch up here, but the assassination of Tsar Alexander II by leftist terrorists (great grand aunt of actor Richard Dreyfus who was then protected by the U.S.A.!) in 1881 setup the terror of Stalin and greater terror of Lenin!

    We have to see that “regime change” is a myth. The problem is not the “boss”. Yes, the corrupt form an oligarchy, but instead of ATTACKING their FALSE-state, we must DETACH from it! Detachment is KEY!

    Core: An umbrella cooperative of corporative corporations of independent contractors employing UNIONIZED workers.

    The revolution will come from ALL OF US because it will be INCLUSIVE of all of us.

    Forget $6 a month to feed “starving kids in (the third world)”, $6 a month to connect to the resistance is the best investment around!

    Each one of us can be a boiling frog. This is the RECURSIVE REVOLUTION. REPEAT & RETWEET

    • 344thBrother says:

      rahulvarshney

      I agree on decriminalization of all herbal medicines including Marijuana.

      I agree on Detaching. When it ceases to be profitable and to feed the power of the “Powers that be” they will fade away.

      I like the idea of inclusivity.

      peace freedom truth justice
      d

  16. 344thBrother says:

    Dear Sibel:

    I know this thread is getting old already, but I lay awake last night with my inner bias poking at me and am hoping that you’ll consider doing a part 4 on the “Revolution” series.

    I’m particularly interested in the purge after the revolution in Iran and these issues:

    My bias wonders… was it coincidence that the very group (Communists) that the CIA and Savak targeted was the first to be attacked by the new power base after the revolution against the Shah was finished? Did the CIA retain vestiges of influence in the party in power? Was it a Gladio type action perhaps, a “synthetic purge”?

    Were the Communists largely Jewish? Did ethnicity play a part in the purging?

    How was the purge(s) carried out? Was it a group mass action like the Muslims vs Hindu’s sort of a mass riot/murder action or was it more organized and like a surveillance/police action?

    Who called for the purges and who led the actions?

    What were the other groups that got attacked? I assume your father was in the intelligencia and it’s usually that group that suffers early in any post revolutionary purge. Did your family have to flee?

    Were the revolutionary leaders purged as well? I’m thinking of a “Night of the long knives” type action.

    Was there any serious resistance to the purges or was it basically just “Roll over and die”?

    Any other information that you think relevant to understanding how these mass purges work would be very useful and interesting to me.

    No hurry of course, just thoughts for fleshing out the topic more fully.

    Peace on earth
    Really a better idea. : )
    d

    • Dave, you came up with another set of highly astute observations/questions.

      Let me throw in a few facts: 1- Did you know that all the top ‘mullahs,’ who became the new government/rulers, were ‘n exile, outside Iran, until revolution was over? Khomeini was in France for decades. Rafsanjani was in England (He was educated there as well; still maintains bank accounts there).

      You see where I am getting here?

      People like my father had a hypothesis on this: Shah was not being very effective in quashing/pacifying the Left-ist movement (Communists/Socialists). US was not very happy with Shah (Especially during his last few years). The main reason was: his effectiveness in quashing communism. Another reason: the West was not happy with Shah: during his last few years he got inflicted with a bit too much hubris, and began toying with the idea of maintaining some control over Iran’s oil, its pricing , etc.).

      With the new regime communism was completely wiped out. Completely. Was this only some positive externality for the US that happened as an organic consequence?

      So yes, you have some very valid questions here;-)

      During the first year (before things got really bad) we did not want to leave (maintaining some level of optimism).

      Once the Iraq-Iran war started we were not allowed to leave. They needed doctors for the war. My father was taken on several duty rounds (war frontlines).

      Later, because we were Turkish citizens and had all our family members there, they allowed us once-per-year vacation leave. The caveat: we could only take total of $5000 for travel. Just like TSA, they had extensive searches (airports), sometimes even body cavities (Some who tried to escape would insert rolls of currency and diamonds inside their body; yap).

      So, in late 1982, we got ourselves roundtrip tickets, packed two suitcases, and left the country, pretending we were going for a two-week vacation.

      We left our house behind (how could we sell and take the money with us?!), our furniture, all our photo albums (7 of them; albums in suitcase would have tipped them …), our bank account(s), all our savings/retirement savings …

      Basically, we started from ‘zero’ in Turkey. Wen through a very very difficult two-year period until my father re-took all the medical exams (to become licensed in Turkey after a long absence) … of course we had family support (my grandparents, aunt, uncles), but still … tough days.

      We also changed our last name. Took my mother’s maiden name (there were rumors that some who flee were targeted outside Iran).

  17. 344thBrother says:

    Wow! Thank you for the information.

    Interesting to see the parallels between here and now and Iran back then. Funny how that pattern just keeps repeating itself.

    If you’re willing, an episode on this would be great! Either way, thanks for the info, very informative.

    peace
    d

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