Probable Cause with Sibel Edmonds- Money, Sex, Blackmail & Sheep-Dipped Journalists

Welcome to our tenth episode of Probable Cause. In this episode we will cover another channel used by the powers to infiltrate viable opposition, to distort facts and truth, and to disseminate and popularize well-designed propaganda. We are going to talk about the media, both mainstream and pseudo-alternatives, and journalists.

As part of this discussion we will talk about how the internet was expected, supposed, to change certain dynamics that had been present in classic mainstream media operations, and whether those expectations came to fruition or not. We will discuss how the same tactics used against activist networks and movements have been put into action targeting the new alternative information mediums: from luring with money and blackmail to entrapment via sheep-dipped operatives.

We will then move to the state’s utilization of reporters as traps to detect, stop and catch sources and whistleblowers, and the lie called ‘honoring confidentiality.’ And finally we will talk about what happens when money as lure is not sufficient, so, the utilization of the good-ole blackmail tactic is used.

As with our previous episodes I will be providing you with real-life examples and cases as context, and will outline the tactic through a step-by-step account. I will be providing my take based on my experience and through my own personal lens and analyses. And as usual our next episode will be based on your reaction, critique, responses and questions posed in the comments section below.

*To listen to our previous episodes on this topic click here

Listen to the full episode here:

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Comments

  1. Joshua Roberts says:

    Additional detailed stories on sheep-dipped/blackmailed media please!

  2. Joshua Roberts says:

    I feel like Wikileaks’ RT embed consortium handled Hastings right into a hush-up hit. And then we had Clarke pumping driverless cars/cyberterrorism memes on the back end to smokescreen the job.

    • Joshua Roberts says:

      to clarify: wikileaks looks like an NSA front, much like many of the big-name “news organizations” which serve as deep state adjuncts.

      • That case has always looked so convoluted to me. I still don’t have any direct information (witnesses, WBs or documents). However, just observing it, looking at various dynamics … has kept me in this confused, highly doubtful, state.

        • wallace gromit says:

          well, these days there is a lot more volume used and a lot less technique. thanks to the NSA etc., it is known how much attention Hastings was getting, from who, to what extent, across what demographics and so on. probably the decision makers saw from data and analysis that people didn’t mind much either way what was to befall Hastings, and just passively enjoyed his sprinkly throughout highly visible outlets. also would’ve been apparent that no one was tied to him or expecting him to stick around. a slightly fantastic, yet plausible ‘accidental’ death fits very nicely, helps the ‘CTs’ do their fantasizing, helps the apologists carry on apologizing/feigning understanding and so on.

          the era of making everything cute and perfect is well over with the web 2.0. its all about volumes of data, salvos and massive barrages of information. ukraine is a fruitful conflict to follow because it shows so clearly how things have changed.

      • Doubt that being confined in a small building for years on end under constant surveillance & threat is the act of a witting or paid agent.

  3. Mgrdichian says:

    Your issues with a poster boy whistleblower and his recent enablers became crystal clear in the blink of an eye. thnx.

    • Good. Although I’d call it not ‘my issues’ but the covered-up facts, silenced whistleblowers and witnesses, thus, the public’s right to know.

      One of the biggest operations ever in the history of whistleblowers-media. One with incredible level of success, thanks to the MSM partners and pseudo-alternative charlatans.

  4. CuChulainn says:

    the other day happened to meet a young journalism major from a liberal arts college–he has observed among his peers that to make a career in journalism these days one needs to be part of the Intell networks, preferably connected w. private military contractors

    • 100% true. There is a reason they call it Information Warfare. It is not reserved for international issues and cases.

      Now that we have this huge ‘Intelligence Industrial Complex’: we have that many more players hiring, utilizing, reporters and information sources. They also love ‘editorial’ manufacturers, not only news and analyses.

  5. Joshua Roberts says:

    Scratching the surface of the tip of the iceberg:
    The Raw Story (Soros sock-puppet NYT spin-off [think MSNBC/TYT])
    Politico (Washington Post/CBS spin-off straight out of Arlington)
    both of these are false opposition fronts for Salon (aka Mother Jones sister site)
    ProPublica (Carnegie homunculus spearheaded by Rita Allen Foundation [globalist change agents/policy dissemination arm])

  6. If Greenwald’s mega-trendy followers only knew about his M&A background… The diddling under-aged boys thing actually plays rather well to the progressives these days – but the fact that he is an open cartel puppet who cut his teeth doing M&A for one of the biggest hatchet firms in NY back in the 90’s… it would destroy the dogma surrounding his manufactured persona with his core demographic.

    • wallace gromit says:

      part of the leveraging of popular ignorance… its apparent that demos that used to be highly concerned and would act, whether it is become rank & file members of institutions or simply contribute economically, they’re optiing out more and become more passively jaded. there’s a lot of cons to this if you’re a deep state strategist going back to the 80s and 90s and prior eras, but on the flip side, you don’t have to be so neat and tidy.

      if GG falls out of favour or not, doesn’t matter too much. the targets of these propaganda programs are ready and willing to accept a new, fresh face in his place at any time, as long as folks like omidyar etc stay generally clean.

      • Correct. That particular operation is over; so the use. There will be many other candidates to be ‘dipped’ and many other operations (and sub-operations).

        • wallace gromit says:

          would love to hear any insights you have on the changes to these operations, strategies and tactics in the last 4-7 years… particularly in regards to the speed of movement of decision makers and possibly the more open ended nature of the strategies? because for me, its seemed like the strategy has generally gotten increasingly high pace and open ended when it comes to the specific objectives. but im no insider…

  7. Sibel,

    I wish you named Alternative Media Man; though I have a suspicion as to the identity of the gentleman you mentioned. Was he also a Bush (Jnr) White House Correspondent for a time?

    This podcast was a sobering one for me; to realise again the level of clever tactics employed by the Beast.

    If they weren’t so immoral and, well… evil, then I would applaud their strategims and long term planning. As it is, I certainly recognise their comprehensive ability to stay in positions of power. Remarkable.

    I personally would like to hear of a few more case studies from your vault of personal experience in this arena, but am happy to take this as read, and move on also…

    S

  8. Yes, please, let’s hear more. I was thinking, let’s hear about the non-blackmail-able ones that were turned…you know…the ones that are totally clean and straight with a long time honest track record…the ones they have to plant sh** on…stuff like classified sh** on a computer or financial sh** in a bank or brokerage account…like Sharyl Attkisson…but not her since I already read her story and she ratted them out before she ended up dirty.

  9. CuChulainn says:

    thank you for this, please more details on journalism
    this is valuable material

    • All right. We’ll do it. So much to cover: starting from my first exposure to all the ones that took place with our whistleblower network.

      With some reporters: It boiled down to the decision-makers; editors, boards, their in house attorneys. I know one thing: so may reporters would love to have an alternative to go to; to practice real journalism … without this cr.. but one that comes with a reasonable salary, health insurance, etc.

  10. This is eye opening. I see that I am still too vulnerable to appearances. More illumination as to how deep control of the media “stars” goes would be greatly appreciated. In order to move forward we need to be able to see the terrain more clearly.

  11. Sibel: This was a very elucidating talk filled with information! It raises several issues for me:
    Interestingly, my overarching thoughts have to do with certain types of pathological behavior which seem to virtually plague the entire system. It raises a very serious question(s): How non-empathic does one have to be to hold on to this sick power?? This peculiar form of psychopathy contains a good deal of sadism(the flip side of sadism is masochism–hence the hordes of neocons getting whipped every week by a dominatrix).
    One couldn’t make such sick behavior up. This so-called Alt. guy was perhaps trying to mend his past(boy sex porn maker/indulger). But in heavy gambling circles he would be called a “a bad pony”. His own karma caught up w/him.
    Your thoughts on psychopaths and/or sociopaths with high I.Q.s as great candidates for those inner Byzantine chambers, of what you speak?–It seems a certain type is needed. But, then again, we have the naïve do-gooder blackmailed!
    I’ve been researching the top neocons and their history for years. I’m familiar with their “clean break ” stance in the mid 70s , PNAC, of course and “Project for a New American Century. A stupendous demolition of 3 buildings(cf. Robert Cage, et, al) on 9/11 gave them their perverted rational to spend trillions and kill millions. Have you ever talked to one in a higher post? My good friend’s husband is one–I just stay away–since we’ve been in a few fuming arguments(I avoid that now). Psychologically they fit a M.O: No conscience(maybe some for their family or not). Intellectually adept at extreme forms of sophistry(talk sounds good, but empty) Commit constant ad hominum (attack messenger, not message) Relentlessly trying to slip across generalizations/basic premises that are flawed –especially with the cooperating MSM.. An incestuous bunch continually writing articles read by one another–but many of them have been around a long time and play a powerful role in National security and Military. And they are draft-dodging cowards afraid of physical brutality -yet the neocons seem to worship Masculinity. One wrote a book one it. ‘Makes me wonder about their inner insecurities.

    Now, regarding you personal safety in Bend, If George Clooney(a member on the council of Foreign Relations, BTW) drops by uninvited with a guaranteed $4 million dollar book deal- just to shed a little kindness towards CFR, tell him you will get back to him and find someone who has certain “friends” in Chicago. They’ll take from there.

  12. Yes. The more is out in the open the better.

  13. ” My good friend’s husband is one–I just stay away–since we’ve been in a few fuming arguments(I avoid that now).”
    I think I heard once that director Stanley Kubrick said, “Stay away from people with real power — they’re dangerous. To your credit you seem to have caught on.

    • This particular guy is a complete wimp.. zero power.But he’s still an over-the -top neocon. A literal waste of time.

    • steven hobbs says:

      Hey Ron, Thank you for your entries.

      “Stay away from people with real power — they’re dangerous.”

      Props to Kubrick. There are other ways work this though. Power (held unfairly) deludes the powerful to their vulnerabilities. One question is how to cunningly manage their vulnerability to our (common people’s) advantage?

  14. This podcast leads one to assume that the Snowden revelations were purposeful so as to move towards codifying mass surveillance into law. The part that I am having trouble wrapping my mind around is the role of Russia. Brzezinski famously lured Russia into the Afghanistan trap. Was Snowden another trap – we lure you into taking him and then we have propaganda to provide a rational to punish you especially since you did something unforgivable by stopping the original attempt to bomb Syria. Once that is in place to set the bigger trap by forcing you into the Ukraine mess. Erdoğan is another puzzle for me. Turkey is a key member of NATO. Erdoğan has a long history of saying one thing for public consumption while pursuing a diametrically opposite agenda. Is his making a deal with Russia to become the focal point of Russia’s gas distribution system just another trap for Russia? Entice Russia into running their pipelines at huge cost into the heart of NATO only to have them made worthless, unless of course there is success in getting regime change in Russia when it would become a protected distribution system for DS controlled gas? Do you think that Erdoğan is truly F’ing with NATO or is he playing the same game that he did with Lybia – playing as friend to a planned victim of NATO only to turn when instructed?

    I don’t feel as if I’m going off topic here. This podcast implies great planning by the DS. Alternative man was invested in to become a valuable asset. For us to be effective we must be able to anticipate their thinking and they seem to make it accessible by following repetitive scripts. The ploy that was used to create regime change with Mosaddegh in Iran has been repeated again and again all over the world for over 60 years and still works with only a small % of the world noticing. We have to become the elite of that small %.

    • Mandela,

      Russia: Smarter than that. One of those games where powers, from all sides, are in the know. Only ‘people’ are left out of that knowledge equation.

      Erdogan: Very astute observation. I call these figures ‘barkers.’ they rarely forget those holding the end of the string. He would ‘NEVER’ fu.. with his masters to ‘that’ extend.

      “For us to be effective we must be able to anticipate their thinking and they seem to make it accessible by following repetitive scripts.”- This is the best summary of ‘why’ cover these cases/issues. Ditto.
      “The ploy that was used to create regime change with Mosaddegh in Iran has been repeated again and again all over the world for over 60 years” – Another perfect point.

  15. Mike Mejia says:

    The case Sibel speaks of is about a very well know alternative journo who has been sheep dipped. However, there is evidence that even at among more obscure less well knownl journalists sheep dipping occurs. I ran across such a case while reading up on the Octopus Murders case (related to October Surprise and Iran Contra. In this case, the ‘journalist’ in question appears to have been trying to get a CIA contract killer/serial killer off the hook for murder by directly interferinhlg in his trial.

  16. andrei_tudor says:

    Sibel, has the information you have on GG been gathered from public sources? If yes, would you mind pointing us to where we may find such information? I’m not asking because I doubt any of it, only so that we may be able to further our own education. The whole Snowden story stank for me from day one, but I had no idea about all the shady deals and blackmail that were going on in the background.

  17. Joseph Davis says:

    Dang. I didn’t know Greenwald was into banging kids. What a sick POS.

  18. Glad to hear we’ll get more of these stories. They’re not only instructive, they’re fascinating!

    I guess there’s a consensus here we’re talking about a certain world-famous reporter who now works for a billionaire. But then, what well-intentioned but ultimately limited attempt at a journalistic exposé can we be talking about? Dareh Gregorian at the NY Daily News broke the story about Greenwald’s porn business troubles. He is the son of Vartan Gregorian, who is head of Carnegie Corporation of New York, which is right up there with your Ford and Rockefeller foundations.

    I know nothing about him, but on the face of it he’d seem an unlikely candidate for undermining the work of the intelligence industrial complex. Was there another article?

    Any illuminating comments appreciated.

    • mariotrevi says:

      I found a Buzz Feed article that mentions the New York Daily News article. This was around June 2013. It’s a short biography of Greenwald entitled: “How Glenn Greenwald Became Glenn Greenwald” dated June 26, 2013, by Jessica Testa.

  19. illuminating. thats a great word. like two great beams – sorry, three – in the darkness of watching the world driven to pieces. Not knowing either of the fellows, an observer could forward the notion Mr Gregorian would be well placed to know and even better placed to have the power to print.
    If I am getting the thread, i suggest the said gentlemans ‘relationship with writing ‘ 911 ‘ oops” TOO LOUD was the problem;
    not the pornography.

    • Remo, that’s exactly the strange thing though. Sibel said that a journalist was disgusted by this “alternative journalist” getting away with pedophilia and tried to go after him. But s/he only succeeded in getting a watered-down article into print, which only touched on the porn business. On the face of it, the Daily News piece by Gregorian potentially fits that description.

      According to Sibel here, if I understood it correctly, the article was basically a failed attempt to tell the truth about his pedophilia (and perhaps his dirty deal with the “angels”), NOT anything to do with retaliation for his writing about 9/11. Which GG never did much of anyway, as far as I know, apart from taking apart the anthrax issue.

      This puts Gregorian in the position of Frustrated Good Guy, rather than, as he was generally portrayed, a dirty smear campaign guy retaliating for the Snowden stories.

      Right?

      And that strikes me as, well, let’s say an unexpected development. I don’t know how much Sibel is willing to say about this to clarify/confirm/deny/expand, but anything would be appreciated.

      • frustrated good guy…?….I don’t know. Could be. By all counts, Carnegie is in deep state . and ‘control’ is what is essential by whatever means. Whoever it is being spoken of here, in the pod, has been controlled. witting or unwitting
        But, true; GG 911truth stuff was tame(d). so……..does this class as distraction?

        • “Whoever it is being spoken of here, in the pod, has been controlled. witting or unwitting”- That says it all. You are right, doesn’t make any difference ‘witting’ or ‘unwitting.’

          • Mgrdichian says:

            “doesn’t make any difference ‘witting’ or ‘unwitting.’ ”

            Exactly! Our response is not contingent on deciphering between the two. Actually, constructing a response that’s effective for either situation is preferred, IMO.

        • Not “could be”, Remo: He *is* a frustrated good guy — according to Sibel’s narrative. You listened to it, right?

          Obviously the main thing, we agree, is that the compromised journalist we presume to be Greenwald is being protected (along with his “angels”). Witting or unwitting, whatever, doesn’t matter, OK.

          But according to this podcast, the crusading journalist we presume to be Gregorian is the one trying to blow the lid off the dirty deal — whatever happened along the chain, it was above his head, according to Sibel’s narrative. And as you say, Carnegie being one of the deep-state-supporting foundations, that makes this quite a weird and surprising thing. That’s why I’m curious about it. It’s interesting.

          I know this is a minor point to focus on in the grand scheme of things, but hopefully I’m not the only one who sees how weird it is. Of course, there are a lot of assumptions here that could be way off base. I don’t know that it was Greenwald, and I don’t know that it was Gregorian. So I’m just groping along in the partly lit darkness, hoping to run into some more clues.

          I’m not trying to contest anything, just trying to understand clearly.

          • CuChulainn says:

            the father’s connection with Carnegie doesn’t preclude the son having good motives–the ongoing slander campaign against jfk relies on the willingness of “savvy” people to assume that fathers and sons share the same outlook, Plato’s Republic for example instructs us otherwise
            undoubtedly many folks at Carnegie have good motives, or believe they do
            the shadow play that Sibel is helping us understand happens even within the élites, or at least on their margins–self-deception, which has many incentives, can blur the distinction between witting and unwitting

          • John, this thread fascinates me.
            Following your naming here of the possible players in this particular event, I’m reminded of the alleged role of kiddy-porn rings (and the nasty perpetrators of the same deeds) in the secret lives of the elite. Coming at this, as I am, from 1st hand info from a high-level ring’s victim – top level parliamentary and media players are claimed as ring members.
            Speculating here; but it seems that some of the DS elite engage in acts involving children which are despicable to most of us, and they do so either willingly or unwittingly for a personal mixture of reasons, involving pleasure, financial gain, or simply to retain membership in this aspect of the ‘group’.

      • Don’t know exactly what happened along the chain. Was it a case of straight ‘order’? Blackmail? Pressure? Was it at editorial level or above that (ownership & board)? … Don’t know.

    • 344thBrother says:

      remo
      I’d bet good money that “they” knew about his pedo-porn stuff before he became a big shot. it’s probably WHY he was allowed to become a big shot. an insurance policy of sorts. and , yeah 911 THOU WILT NOT go there.
      peace
      d

  20. Michael Aasen says:

    Not sure where you’ll (we’ll) will end up with all of this but it is exciting. This is genius! Thanks Sibel!! Just finished The Lone Gladio – couldn’t put it down (and I’m not normally a fan of fiction)!

    It would be interesting to dig into the role technology could be playing in this. There are interesting P2P technologies that decentralize our communications and crowd funding applications that might make your “50,000 $20 donors” scenario more likely a reality. Apps could be created that would notify users if a useful number of willing activists are in geographical proximity (think TSA checkpoint etc) of a situation that would lend itself to “showing up”. How about a GIGO (garbage in/garbage out) app that continues to dump misleading and confusing data from our devices that drowns the NSA in unusable info that even the Utah Data Center can’t process?

  21. CuChulainn says:

    no not off topic–Mozgovoi on the nature of mass media reporting
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9n2Tr93Xxw
    Mozgovoi is a model for the kind of popular resistance with no media access that Sibel is fomenting; the Society of the Spectacle, whether based in Moscow, Kiev, or Washington, is allergic to his message

  22. 344thBrother says:

    Speaking of patterns.
    To get to the top of the top of any power group you almost HAVE to be a pedophile. Gay or straight doesn’t matter. To get to the VERY top, you have to be willing to murder them as well. There’s no shortage of information on this pattern. And, it makes sense. People can forgive darn near anything, but pedophilia, and child murder, not so much. I’m guessing that most countries make exceptions to their non-extradition policies in cases of child murder and pedophilia.

    Perhaps for future episodes you would consider a little on blackmailer in chief George Herbert Walker Bush (Skull and Boner gee what a surprise). Blackmail plays a big part in the Skull and Bones initiation process.

    In my opinion he’s one of the slipperiest, nastiest, most dangerous of all the evil CIA types. Most people think of him as an awkward, failed president. He’s clever enough to look like a ineffective dork while pulling strings in the dark.

    The information on using “Fact checking” in order to get around confidentiality wasn’t shocking but it was very interesting background that I wasn’t familiar with.

    I too would like to see more on this whole corruption of the media (And political processes in general) so, carry on. : )
    peace
    d

    • Dave, at least, 4 well-known elected officials that I know of- first hand & directly. It seems to be the determining factor hen it comes to selecting the highest-level position within the congress: whether it is speaker of the house, or, chairman of Intel or January or Gov oversight committee. 100% positive correlation between the number of bones in the closet and ‘climbing the rank’ within political offices.

      • CuChulainn says:

        chairman of Intel or January??? probably Judiciary

      • So Sibel, we are indeed living under the thumbs of psychopaths–and so damned many of them! I have felt this way for a long time. It portends much ill for civilization itself. Your acumen regarding “how is a country better off?–regarding Chechnya, the extreme West of China, Azerbaijan, and Kyrgyzstan on your concurrent show suggests The Deep State does not care for a bit for humans. This is probably the main flaw of the Species –those at the top have no conscience. We are not a civilized species.

        • Ron – Historical leaders are riddled with psychopaths. It is simply that those who want power the most and are willing to do ANYTHING to attain it have a huge advantage over those who are moral and play by the rules. I think of the problem as an evolutionary imperative for the masses to become educated about the nature of psychopathy and how it has effected humanity throughout history and from this study realize how fragile freedom is and the urgency of becoming aware proactive citizens so as not to lose it.

          • Madela: Well, that has been the problem from day one. How do you educate the masses?. We discussed education earlier. Since I can remember–it’s always the same simplistic answer .”Educate the masses” …”an evolutionary imperative for the masses to become educated.” The evolution of life on earth, including homo sapiens was never done willfully. Survival of DNA through natural selection is pretty much the deal. “Masses’ cannot become “proactive” by willing it. That’s not how organic life on earth works.
            And for me there are way too many psychopaths besides the elite. No one asked to be born into this earthly dream, yet here we are. I do respect your comment, however.

          • arealjeffersonian says:

            Mandela & Ron:

            I don’t think it’s ever been possible to “educate” the masses. Convince them to follow-yes, but not because they have been educated, but rather because of charismatic leadership – bad or good, more often than not bad. So perhaps the challenge is to educate potential leaders that don’t continue to lead down the path to destruction. Maybe they don’t even have to be “good” leaders as we might define leaders – just those who understand that the destruction will include them as well as the masses.

          • DenStendigeResen says:

            I think part of the problem is that they aren’t really “the masses” – rather, various groups of people, many of whom are as convinced as all of us that their truth is the right one. They are worrying over how to educate us – quelle ironie!
            I think the biggest concern is the many ways in which people are being artificially dumbed down – GMO’s, addictive games and media, MASSIVE drugging, EMF waves, etc. How does one overcome that? I live in Europe now, and am shocked by the difference in body types and clear-headedness (which is not to say that people here aren’t drowning in propaganda, and mostly willing to believe it).
            At any rate, we have to remember we are all in this together, for better or worse. It isn’t really “us” vs the masses, though it feels that way most of the time. As for the suggestion to educate potential leaders – here you all are, educated and ready to spring into action!

          • Ron, Jeffersonian, DenStendige,
            This business of education is a real conundrum. 1st Den, sorry for the languaging – I certainly don’t think in terms of us/them. Maybe you guys are right and it is impossible, but if so then we are wasting our time here. I agree that it is not possible in the short run, given the difficulties involved in overcoming existing programming of the self. But long term, as more awakened people bring up their kids so as enable them to think for themselves, and as they build up an understanding of power and its misuses there begins to exist a growing population of ‘educated’ citizens who will start to organize and strategize how to make living conditions better for all and to extend their knowledge to others. I think that it is important to remember that every child, regardless of their nature, will be heavily influenced by the cultural and educational milieu that she grows up in.

            I have spent a lot of time working in a radically religious community. The children are taught to partake in and love the religion’s precepts from birth. Even the children’s books are all about forming their minds. The vast majority of their children continue to believe as their parents and their parents’ parents. If children were taught based on principles that we believe in I think that we would have a radically different society than we do now. The problem is developing the vision, the patience, and the strategies that will lead to the desired end.

          • Valid points.

            One of the major objectives with this podcast series and our topic: to identify ‘all’ the factors. They work together. The ingredients in the recipe that has created the ‘masses’- Education/academia, media, the role of NGOs, the entertainment industry … you know how they way ‘well, it takes a village to …’ Well, it takes all these ingredients for this stinky end-result we see around us. Thus, the problem of chasing only a symptom here and a symptom there, or an ingredient here and another one there. Unfortunately many activism channels do exactly that: chasing one symptom or one ingredient, like a cat chasing its tail.

            In our coming episodes, after we wrap up the media sub-topic, we’ll begin to talk about: synthetic events to shape the minds and hearts. How, with education, media, NGOs, controlled opposition … all under control, the powers use well-deigned synthetic events as catalysts to direct or re-direct. Needless to say, 9/11 is a perfect example. But there are many others. I will be talking about the Military Coup of 1980 in Turkey- how the hearts and minds were massaged via ‘false flag’ operations making the coup not only possible, but desired by the masses (as a God-Sent survival channel).

      • I wonder if we’re cursed or blessed by whichever individual journey resulted in having a space carved into our psyches which can accept and integrate such knowledge.

        In terms of recruiting BFP members, I’ve been thinking about the full ramifications of what I would be asking certain friends to step off into.

        “Friend, come step into this virtual room with me and some others, where we uncover and discuss dark and soul-crushing truth. If there’s no place in you which can safely contain such knowledge, you’ll either protect yourself by denial and abrupt departure, or you’ll have the needed capability carved into you, without anesthesia.”

        I may in fact word it exactly so. I’ll also tell them there’s no place on the Internet which I’ve EVER been so happy and gratified to discover.

        • We are “in the zone” at times, KNARF! Brilliant insight, my friend!

        • “…or you’ll have the needed capability carved into you, without anesthesia.”- Another jewel, Knarf. So very true. This was one of the reasons I got so tired of/bored with many podcast interviews @ BFP. For example: Take the latest one on NSA, whether from the academia or NGOs, even with the harshest realities/facts, they make sure to inject and deliver with tons of ‘anesthesia.’ The watered-down effect. And you are right: many would consider the naked truth, the delivery here: harsh, abrasive, ‘soul-crushing’ … This was one of the points I tried to cover with our previous episode: maintaining realistic optimism while tackling all these dark realities and the difference between that and the Pollyanna-esque denial-ridden optimism.

      • Russell TICE’s testimony was explicit. Leverage. Those without ‘leverage’ do not get the promotions. His job was to trawl for leverage.

        Every major promotion at gatekeeper level made after 911, in the context of 911, is an identifier of the conspiracy, and of an individual conspirator.
        One way or another.

      • 344thBrother says:

        @Sibel. To climb higher, one must sink lower. Agreed.
        It seems that part of the vetting process is to get it on film. One forum for that is Bohemian Grove. I’m sure there are plenty others.

        Thanks for the Reply Sibel.
        peace
        d

    • Dave, Ron, Sibel, CuChul; the info shared here regarding psychopathy and Dave’s comment, ‘… To get to the top of any power group you almost HAVE to be a paedophile’, seems true to me.

      Mandela, ArealJ, DenSten, Ron; your conversation re educating the masses is revealing in this light also.

      I agree with Mandela’s view, ‘…if children were taught based on principles we believe in, I think that we would have a radically different society.’ To this end, and to Sibel’s comment on the aim of this podcast to ‘identify ALL the factors’, I would say that by shedding the light on the nature and machinations of these groups, we stand every chance of in fact achieving a re-education of the masses. Notwithstanding the HUGE obstacles against achieving that…

      I like to remind myself that water dripping on rock will, over time, carve out a ravine.

      In fact, coming to understand the sickness in the minds of psychopaths and child-torture/murder perpetrators, has in fact been a paradigm shifting realisation for me, which has helped me better comprehend the motivations behind so much of the various DS, global elite shenanigans that I had been discovering over the past 6 – 14 years.

      If someone is capable of, even if by force or coercion, to participate in acts against children which most on this forum would describe as ‘pure evil’, then it follows that to lie, cheat and steal, or issue orders to have someone blackmailed, murdered, vilified etc, would be nothing more than a walk in the park.

      • Remember everyone.. In the process of educating our masses we essentially have 2 major groups. Students of all ages in over- crowded whacky classroom structure And all adults who, in the main, are “educated” by whom? Images, “news” , lies, consume!, war is peace, etc., etc. controlled by the deep state MSM. This is a cursory example illustrating what we face. Thoughts on how we chip into this colossus?

  23. CuChulainn says:

    has anyone figured out who is the award-winning NYT journalist mentioned at 16:40?

  24. arealjeffersonian says:

    I still believe in the potential power of the Internet as a force – BFP being a prime example. Sibel is certainly setting a example – I guess we’ll see if the are enough like minded souls out there to really make BFP a force to be reckoned with.

    • I don’t want to sound negative, but I am anticipating an end to this as well. It will be gradual, until a ‘synthetic event’ is created to make the ‘activism on the net’ the enemy; the terrorism-inducing medium … some such. It is coming. It has been coming- slowly. And it won’t be long before they start removing ‘viable threats.’

      I am not technologically savvy, so I cannot speak to the technical implications/ramifications. But I know it is planned, and in the stage of initial implementation.

      Yuck. Nothing like pointing to bleak and negative future (by ‘me’) … first thing in the morning.

      • 344thBrother says:

        You need stronger coffee first thing in the morning Sibel. : )
        If there’s a physical address I can send you a pound of good, Organic coffee that I blend myself, I’d be happy to do so. (I’m kind of proud how my blends turn out).

        If not, I’ll just leave it as a suggestion.
        peace
        d

      • Faith, Sibel.

        The adversaries are morally bankrupt savages, not supermen. They may well overstep. Whether they appreciate it or not, their constraints are tighter now, because 9/11 is becoming more transparent every day. The graph of military outlays year-to-year (was that your interview with Jones?) post 9/11 is relevant, of course, but I think it’s secondary because it’s gross, not net. The typical defense company has a profit margin around 10%.

        The elephant in the room is the price of oil. Graph it pre and post 9/11 and then multiply it by 8-9 million barrels per day the Saudis produce at essentially constant cost, and right there is the reason for 9/11. There you are seeing trillions of dollars delta in NET compared to a few hundred million delta in military outlay NET since 9/11.

        The primary purpose of 9/11 was to destabilize the ME and drive the price of oil to the region of $140/bbl, exactly where Bin Laden said it should be. Sure, there were other pigs at the trough as well. The MIC and the Security State, the latter being the policing and imprisoning arm which feeds on the War on Drugs and the War on Terror.

        So many more people are aware of all this dynamic now, than were conscious of it on Sept 10, 2001 when Rumsfeld was shrugging his shoulders and saying he didn’t know where a couple of trillion dollars went over the years. Well, that got story got buried, didn’t it?

        This increased awareness and widespread instant suspicion of false flag when “terror” attacks take place, is trending upwards, and that won’t change. Another earth-shaking staged incident may well be a step over the line. As is said, never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake, or about to.

        Again I say, Faith. For my entire life, Faith has been sufficient, even if just barely at times.

        Whatever comes, we want to be able to say, “we did our best.” No more can be expected.

      • andrei_tudor says:

        Yeah, the signs are all there for an Internet clampdown. The Sony digital false flag for one, and I just remembered something Cameron said after Charlie Hebdo.

        ‘Prime Minister David Cameron said this week that the attacks in Paris, in which 17 people died, are proof ”terrorists cannot be allowed safe space to communicate with each other.”‘

        I’m sure there are many others. Anything from Australia, Shane? It’s happening in Canada:

        http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/new-counterterrorism-bill-to-override-certain-privacy-limits-1.2901096

        • andrei, from your link

          Deep State Blackwhite:
          “If we understand radicalization as a process, the earlier you intervene the more likely you are to turn those young people around and to offer alternatives,” he says.

          Translation:
          “”If we understand radicalization as a process, the earlier you intervene the more likely you are to turn those young people into mass murderers who’ll herd the sheeptards into clamoring for even more state power over themselves and their children,” he says.

          Lather, rinse, repeat

      • Black Swans circling Sibel? Another false flag? They are to be expected now. Sad, but true.

      • CuChulainn says:

        The “War On Terror” Turns Inward – DHS Report Warns Of Right Wing Terror Threat
        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-20/war-terror-turns-inward-%E2%80%93-dhs-report-warns-right-wing-terror-threat
        And so it begins… the intentional demonization of a growing segment of the U.S. population that rightly believes the government is run by a collective of thieving, corrupt, immoral sociopaths. Commingling dissent, violence and “right wing” ideology will be key in the ultimate division of government critics in these United States, and a successful attempt to scare people away from questioning a clearly degraded and parasitic status quo.

  25. My God, people ! ! ! Could we convince The PEOPLE of America that there really is something going on that IS NOT a Hollywood movie? Yea, I didn’t think so … can we get SE an agent to make a movie of Lone Gladio ?? !!
    Yea, … LOL … OK… die laughing ROFL !!! Sibel???

    • 344thBrother says:

      Lone Gladio the movie.
      I’m in! Crowd sourcing anyone?
      I’m still interested in an audio book myself, it would avoid the “Re-interpretation” of a darn good novel into something more… “Acceptable” by the producers.
      p
      d

      • yes, an audio book would be great, and a discussion forum/thread focused on the book!
        giving this book away may be the best introduction to BFP for the uninitiated

  26. antonio escutia jr says:

    I too would like to hear more about how the “alternative” media is controlled to corrupt the truth. There’s so much misinformation and disinformation out there one really has to do there research in finding the truth.
    Seek and you should receive. I always like the nuggets of info I find here on BFP and from you Sibel and if one digs a little deeper they will find that which they seek. Keep up the great work.

    aej

  27. andrei_tudor says:

    One framework for analyzing the impact of the Internet from the point of view of population control
    is to consider an alternative scenario, one in which the Internet did not exist. Would we have been
    better or worse off? Would it have been easier for the state to control public opinion and
    perception? It’s not an easy question to answer, but I think that framing it in relative terms,
    rather than absolute terms, provides a more practical approach. After all, no situation is perfect,
    but some are preferable to others.

    I guess what it boils down to, at least in my mind, is whether it’s more difficult for the state to
    execute its agenda in the age of the Internet, than it was in previous times. The Internet provides
    more freedom of information, and from that respect its impact is positive (for us). It also provides
    a platform for the state to non-intrusively spy on us, thus allowing them to more easily determine the
    shape that popular resistance is likely to take, and to counter it more effectively, using soft or
    hard means. The so-called alternative media is one such soft method – it allows them to guide
    perception and to provide controlled and non-damaging (for them) release valves for popular
    discontent, all while maintaining freedom of speech, and the illusion of a democratic society.

    What is the overall effect? We can probably judge by comparing our current times with other periods
    in time, say the Vietnam war era. Was the public more informed then than it is now? Did popular
    discontent create more pressure on the establishment? I wasn’t around then, so I cannot say, but I
    would be interested to know what others, who can draw these parallels, would have to say about it.

    • 344thBrother says:

      short answer from me remo.
      I believe the internet was a much bigger and uncontrolled phenomenon than expected. So on one hand, I believe that life without the Internet would have been much easier to control. (Look at the decline in TV news “Believers” for instance.

      On the other hand the internet has made it a lot easier to track and trace users of certain “unacceptable” persuasions.

      To me it comes down to a race. The masses of people waking up and gearing up via the information they’re receiving via the internet vs the Powers that be and their controlled/coopted disinfo campaigns and plans to try and take us down one way or another.

      It’s neck and neck I think. I feel that we will win and there will be a birth of global freedom from it, but, as I’ve said before, like any birth it will be accompanied by a lot of screaming and blood.

      peace
      d

      • Yes.

      • chris bagg says:

        Well put d. A race is exactly right. The internet has changed the game for the Powers That Be, finally making available a myriad of “truth narratives” that undermine the lies of the MSM. Some of these “truth narratives” such those found here, or at AE911 truth for instance, are very compelling, presenting a huge credibility problem for the established power system. So the conundrum faced by us here, of waking up the masses, is a kind of race.

        In fact, the name of this podcast gives us a handy metaphor for this race : Boiling Frogs. If the masses are frogs in a pot, and The Powers That Be are turning up the heat ever so slowly, how do we get the frogs to jump out of the pot before the water boils? I submit that this is already happening on line. The internet has functioned like a handful of salt thrown into the pot, dropping the boiling point very suddenly. All at once, many of the frogs have awakened from their complacency. Along these lines, you might even say that the internet has had an unanticipated “eutectic” effect upon our awareness of everything, including the lies told to us by our government. From the Government’s point of view, they are now in a race to undermine the power of the internet before the masses wake up to their lies and organize a “reckoning”.

        What will they (the PTB) do to undermine this eutectic power of the internet to lower the threshold of gullibility? Censoring is the first line of defense, with copyright laws like sopa and pipa, etc. Next, they try to fracture the truth content of the internet into a kaleidoscope of competing narratives and misinformation, using websites that look a lot like this one, but peddle kooky nonsense. When this fails, they demonize the whole notion of “conspiracy theory” as they have done since the JFK assassination, and finally they will try to end “net neutrality” to cut off our access to inconvenient information.

        My view of all of this, however, is that we have time and tide on our side. Americans, for their foolish gullibility, really hate being lied to. They are capable of sorting fact from fiction, and will gravitate toward the truth when it is presented clearly. Today, because of the internet, there is nothing preventing them from gravitating in huge numbers. The masses are kind of like a “John Wayne” character: amiable and slow to wake up, but extra angry and ready for action when they do. If America can, in as short a time as possible, be presented with the true depth of the lies that have been foisted on them for years, they will have their “John Wayne moment” and awaken to confront the evil that besets them. To accomplish this, we need to go after the perpetrators of 911 with the threat of jail time and worse. Tug on this thread and the entire criminal edifice that we call our Government will unravel. Prove to people that they have been lied to not only about the “War on Drugs” and the assassinations of the 60s, but also about The Boston Bombing, The Sandy Hook shooting, and all the numerous fake shootings and bombings that have taken place recently, both here and abroad, and you will have a mob that truly is “pitchfork ready” IMO.

        • “When this fails, they demonize the whole notion of “conspiracy theory” as they have done since the JFK assassination, and finally they will try to end “net neutrality” to cut off our access to inconvenient information.” – Very likely. The groundwork has already been done. Look at the top-tier players and their partnership with the deep state: from Amazon to Google to Facebook. The partnership is in place, the mechanism has already been designed, the ‘legal’ and ‘political’ platform is being built (as we speak, you named a few- ex: net neutrality). Now, for the next stage all they need is a few ‘triggering events & cases.’ Maybe a combo of small and big triggers. And then we’ll see how quickly they go about final stage-implementation with all the groundwork already in place.

          Again, I sound extremely pessimistic, but when we analyze the elements, it seems highly realistic. Looking forward to hear others’ opinion on this.

          • Here is an excerpt of the speech of a US president almost 54 years ago. One could not even imagine a US president raising such questions and concerns today. It is the loss of such discussions that leads us to pessimism.

            This deadly challenge (this refers to the cold war) imposes upon our society two requirements of direct concern both to the press and to the President—two requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national peril. I refer, first, to the need for far greater public information; and, second, to the need for far greater official secrecy.
            The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.
            But I do ask every publisher, every editor, and every newsman in the nation to reexamine his own standards, and to recognize the nature of our country’s peril. In time of war, the government and the press have customarily joined in an effort, based largely on self-discipline, to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy. In time of “clear and present danger,” the courts have held that even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the public’s need for national security.
            Today no war has been declared—and however fierce the struggle may be—it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired.
            If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes the self-discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of “clear and present danger,” then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent.
            It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions—by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence—on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.
            Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.
            Nevertheless, every democracy recognizes the necessary restraints of national security—and the question remains whether those restraints need to be more strictly observed if we are to oppose this kind of attack as well as outright invasion.
            For the facts of the matter are that this nation’s foes have openly boasted of acquiring through our newspapers information they would otherwise hire agents to acquire through theft, bribery or espionage; that details of this nation’s covert preparations to counter the enemy’s covert operations have been available to every newspaper reader, friend and foe alike; that the size, the strength, the location and the nature of our forces and weapons, and our plans and strategy for their use, have all been pinpointed in the press and other news media to a degree sufficient to satisfy any foreign power; and that, in at least one case, the publication of details concerning a secret mechanism whereby satellites were followed required its alteration at the expense of considerable time and money.
            The newspapers which printed these stories were loyal, patriotic, responsible and well-meaning. Had we been engaged in open warfare, they undoubtedly would not have published such items. But in the absence of open warfare, they recognized only the tests of journalism and not the tests of national security. And my question tonight is whether additional tests should not now be adopted.
            That question is for you alone to answer. No public official should answer it for you. No governmental plan should impose its restraints against your will. But I would be failing in my duty to the Nation, in considering all of the responsibilities that we now bear and all of the means at hand to meet those responsibilities, if I did not commend this problem to your attention, and urge its thoughtful consideration.
            On many earlier occasions, I have said—and your newspapers have constantly said—that these are times that appeal to every citizen’s sense of sacrifice and self-discipline. They call out to every citizen to weigh his rights and comforts against his obligations to the common good. I cannot now believe that those citizens who serve in the newspaper business consider themselves exempt from that appeal.
            I have no intention of establishing a new Office of War Information to govern the flow of news. I am not suggesting any new forms of censorship or new types of security classifications. I have no easy answer to the dilemma that I have posed, and would not seek to impose it if I had one. But I am asking the members of the newspaper profession and the industry in this country to reexamine their own responsibilities, to consider the degree and the nature of the present danger, and to heed the duty of self-restraint which that danger imposes upon us all.
            Every newspaper now asks itself, with respect to every story: “Is it news?” All I suggest is that you add the question: “Is it in the interest of the national security?” And I hope that every group in America—unions and businessmen and public officials at every level—will ask the same question of their endeavors, and subject their actions to this same exacting test.
            And should the press of America consider and recommend the voluntary assumption of specific new steps or machinery, I can assure you that we will cooperate whole-heartedly with those recommendations.
            Perhaps there will be no recommendations. Perhaps there is no answer to the dilemma faced by a free and open society in a cold and secret war. In times of peace, any discussion of this subject, and any action that results, are both painful and without precedent. But this is a time of peace and peril which knows no precedent in history.
            It is the unprecedented nature of this challenge that also gives rise to your second obligation—an obligation which I share. And that is our obligation to inform and alert the American people—to make certain that they possess all the facts that they need, and understand them as well—the perils, the prospects, the purposes of our program and the choices that we face.
            No President should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary. I am not asking your newspapers to support the Administration, but I am asking your help in the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American people. For I have complete confidence in the response and dedication of our citizens whenever they are fully informed.
            I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers—I welcome it. This Administration intends to be candid about its errors; for, as a wise man once said: “An error doesn’t become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” We intend to accept full responsibility for our errors; and we expect you to point them out when we miss them.
            Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed—and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian law-maker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by the First Amendment—the only business in America specifically protected by the Constitution—not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to simply “give the public what it wants”—but to inform, to arouse, to reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our crises and our choices, to lead, mold, educate and sometimes even anger public opinion.
            This means greater coverage and analysis of international news—for it is no longer far away and foreign but close at hand and local. It means greater attention to improved understanding of the news as well as improved transmission. And it means, finally, that government at all levels, must meet its obligation to provide you with the fullest possible information outside the narrowest limits of national security—and we intend to do it.
            It was early in the Seventeenth Century that Francis Bacon remarked on three recent inventions already transforming the world: the compass, gunpowder and the printing press. Now the links between the nations first forged by the compass have made us all citizens of the world, the hopes and threats of one becoming the hopes and threats of us all. In that one world’s efforts to live together, the evolution of gunpowder to its ultimate limit has warned mankind of the terrible consequences of failure.
            And so it is to the printing press—to the recorder of man’s deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news—that we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help man will be what he was born to be: free and independent.

            No wonder the had to kill him…..

        • Chris: “Americans… are capable of sorting fact from fiction, and will gravitate toward the truth when it is presented clearly.” That’s a comforting belief Chris, and I seem to be breaking too many bubbles. But I have never seen that phenomenon an a large scale. A very simple answer: Emotions/biases trump fact!

      • steven hobbs says:

        At the risk of being dangerously repetitive, “education” of the masses is active (i.e. praxis) from several perspectives; many ways to think about change. There are also change agents and Moneyed shibboleths, & dipped sheep…
        “1. Keep the issues on the political and social agenda;
        2. Win majority support against current conditions and policies;
        3. Cause power-holders to change strategy although they do not solve problems;”

        They don’t know their vulnerabilities or their blinds spots

  28. I just hope you are right, d.
    Not sure that all your land-mail is getting thru Sibel. And I hear you on your intuited threat levels…
    U.S. Army Europe commander Ben Hodges announces a ‘Battalion of advisers’ into Ukraine beginning March. A battalion of advisers ! Jaisus H.. This is serious escalation..on Russia’s border….Also Danish Central Banker openly talking about all banks charging to deposit. Charging to deposit?!? Greek vote gives some chance of ‘hope’, and Merkel at least “saying” arming UKR fascists is not a good idea, while we already know they are…but; overall..a battalion of US boots on Ukrainian ground is an escalation closer to flash and if it does flash; would be ideal time to disrupt targeted open internet forums .
    John. If I have disparaged an honest Joe – a real one – then I totally apologize to him and hope he turns his attention to whistleblowing the forces scuppering his story sitting right above him in the editorial office and connecting to deep state. I am suggesting the answers to those questions are closer to him than they are to me.

  29. While we are on the topic of money, sex and blackmail, does anyone here have an opinion on Scott Ritter? I used to listen to what he had to say quite a bit, then I was out of the loop for a while to find ‘whoa’, he had been busted for soliciting an underage girl! What’s also curious about Ritter is that he went to high school in Turkey, maybe just a coincidence.

    Is this the case of a flawed human being being taken down because he was too outspoken? Or was he actually a disinformation agent himself?

    I wonder also if anyone has an opinion on the Donald Sachtleben case- this is the former FBI guy taken down for National Security leaks AND child porn at the same time.

    I just mention these cases because I am reading Lone Gladio now, and I see how sex with minors seems to play a major role in blackmail, and I wonder if either or both of Ritter and Sachtleben may have been blackmailed and/or set up at any point in time.

    • Mike, I am so glad you brought up this example- Ritter. A perfect example & perfect timing.

      “Is this the case of a flawed human being taken down because he was too outspoken? Or was he actually a disinformation agent himself?” – I don’t have any direct info on this, and I don’t know Ritter personally, but I would lean towards the former. Because: The info, ‘being busted for soliciting a minor’ would have been safely buried had he been one of ‘their’ players. What do you think?

      “I wonder if either or both of Ritter and Sachtleben may have been blackmailed and/or set up at any point in time.” – I’d say ‘both.’ Usually, the exposure follows ‘unsuccessful’ blackmail. During the first year of my WB journey, after I got attorneys, one of the first thing they asked me to do was: ‘Go, sit down, think, and write down a list of all your skeletons in your closet. Everything. And not only yours- make sure you have your husband make a list of his. Then, both of you sit down and think very hard, and decide whether you want to pursue this case. Because those bones, skeletons, will be dug up and announced to the entire world. It is not a ‘maybe.’ It is a ‘definite.”

      Those attorneys knew a thing or two: had known hundreds of WB cases directly; had represented dozens of gov whistleblowers.

      • Mike Mejia says:

        “The info, ‘being busted for soliciting a minor’ would have been safely buried had he been one of ‘their’ players. What do you think?”

        I tend to agree.

    • Child pedophilia is a whole topic in itself! Its perverted history is ancient and pervades aristocracy/royalty even today. Virtually everywhere.

  30. I don’t have any inside information on Scott Ritter, but for what it is worth, I did meet and speak with him both before and after the 1st scandal – you may not be aware that he was convicted and jailed as a result of another sting operation about 10 years after the first. My human nature detector judged him to truly believe all that he was saying about Iraq, but that military correctness and in your face patriotism were covers for something he was could not accept about himself. Before Kerry ran against Bush but after the vote to give him authority to use military force in Iraq, I saw Scott and asked him how he felt about Kerry. He became so livid that it took him a few moments to compose himself and respond. He told me that he had gotten extensive access to both Kerry and his staff and felt that they truly knew that there were no WMD’s in Iraq, but voted to give Bush the authority anyway. His outrage was both real and almost out of control. His crimes were not covered up and his career as a gadfly is done. I think that in his case his unhealthy predilections were just used to shut him up.

    • “I think that in his case his unhealthy predilections were just used to shut him up.”- Same here.

      On a different note: I have heard from ‘insiders’ that Kerry was also blackmailed and neutralized when he was ‘hot’ on Iran Contra scandal (the congressional sub-committee formed to investigate). According to these ‘insiders’ the powers had collected all the bones/skeletons he had (involving some extramarital sex/prostitution), and with his large Catholic based voters he would have been finished had these skeletons were publicized … so he backed off, and became one of the kings’ men … The End.

      • Kerry is an interesting and complex case. I say complex because he was both skull and bones and I believe a true believer. He protested to end the Viet Nam war, ran for congress to make things better and then pissed off Reagan’s henchmen by exposing the Iran Contra Scandal pretty much on his own. I don’t know of other skull and bones men who flirted with the light side. Maybe I should read Sutton’s book on them. What I can’t fathom is how someone who knows right from wrong deeply enough to fight for it can live with themselves while doing that which would have been abhorrent to them. How does one relearn how to think and feel. How does John Kerry and all of the others like him rationalize their lives? If I were in their shoes I might have backed off and ceased to put dynamite up ‘their’ butts, but I wonder how they are made to become the antithesis of what and who they were.

        • “I wonder how they are made to become the antithesis of what and who they were.”- It is a repeated, common theme. With some it is ‘accepting the realities’ and giving up what they view as ‘act of futility.’

          With some it is the ‘fear’- fear of losing too much; seeing the price ‘too high.’

          With some it is ‘blackmail’ being effective.

          With some it is ‘greed’ coming in later stage of their life.

          With some, starts with little ‘compromise’ here and little ‘compromise’ there, and before they know it becomes all compromise- one-sided; until nothing of ‘origin’ is left.

          What I’m trying to say: so many different reasons; many factors … sometimes all combined.

          • I figured when I listened to the podcast the compromised person was probably Glenn Greenwald. Reading the comments it appears that is the consensus. While I respected some of his work the fact that he was a gatekeeper in regards to 9/11 Truth made me very skeptical of his overall character. I knew he had some links to the porn industry but I had no idea his behavior was so seedy and indeed criminal. If Greenwald is guilty of these acts, he deserves to be exposed and suffer the consequences (discredit and possible conviction). I thought it strange that he ran off to Brazil.

            The whole Snowden thing smelled fishy to me and yours, James Corbett’s and Tom Secker’s analysis of the whole affair made me come to the qualified conclusion that Snowden was yet another limited hangout. And then there was Greenwald’s deal with billionaire Bilderberger Pierre Omidyar.
            Have you any thoughts on the Jeffery Epstein scandal. It appears the billionaire was operating a human trafficking ring with help from Ghislaine Maxwell, the daughter of the late media mogul and Mossad spy Robert Maxwell. Police reports have it that the island mansion where Epstein “entertained” his rich and powerful friends was wired for video recording. Of course, the so-called honey pot or honey trap is one of the favorite methods used by intelligence agencies to control politicians.

        • CuChulainn says:

          as far as i can see Kerry’s protests were rank opportunism; in fact he was Phoenix operative
          http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/26/what-john-kerry-really-did-in-vietnam/

          • Very interesting. So the question becomes: was the subcommittee and involved rhetoric on Iran Contra all ‘staged’ and pre-designed? If so, to accomplish what exactly.

            Welcome to the hall of smoke and mirrors!

          • Sibel, February 21, 2015 at 1:56 pm

            “was the subcommittee and involved rhetoric on Iran Contra all ‘staged’ and pre-designed? If so, to accomplish what exactly”

            Limited hang-out. Throw the public some red meat on weapons trafficking to divert attention from massive CIA / organized crime drug operations. Fast and Furious same thing, IMHO.

          • That was a ‘rhetorical’ question, but I’m glad we are all on same page … Another good example/parallel would be the 9/11 Commission & the joint congressional commission on 9/11. Farce. Farce, farce X 1000000000.

          • Thanks CuChulainn! Great article. All mysteries solved and another illusion bites the dust. So Kerry never changed. He was always an ambitious opportunist with no moral code. His protest of the war was just to capture antiwar sentiment and most likely the Iran Contra expose was his guess as to what would make a name for himself and maybe propel him to the presidency. Instead he was reprimanded and taught who was boss and the cost of losing sight of that important fact, which he has never forgotten since. I guess that for many years his ambition had not been utilized by those who run the DS like his younger classmate, GB, who was less ambitious, but more ‘entrepreneurial’ : -)

  31. what about the case of Tony Blair; is the title slander?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/11421856/Tony-Blair-to-advise-Serbian-government-16-years-after-bombing-Belgrade.html
    Mr Vucic was once such an outspoken critic of the British politician that he was listed as an editor of a book titled English Gay Fart Tony Blair.

  32. fm counterpunch: “..young Kerry had created great problems for him [chief of naval operations, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and the other top brass, by killing so many non-combatant civilians and going after other non-military targets.”
    That would fit a pattern.

  33. the following link is an illustration, if you follow a few posts back in the thread, of how difficult it is to talk with people about this
    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/02/open-thread-2015-09.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef01b8d0db0aaa970c
    TPTB may have nothing to fear, if folks at a relatively enlightened place like MoA are so conditioned in their thinking

    • Well done, CuChulainn.
      guest77 (Feb 21, 2015 11:14:57 PM) sums up his position well when he says, ‘I don’t really care about the porno stuff…’

    • Yes Cu, everyone is conditioned in their thinking including us. When presented with information there is that which we are open to and that which we are not, depending on what our prior experiences and understanding of them have prepared us to understand. All that we have become has been the product of layers of experience and learning. We are not ready to take something in till we are ready, DUH. Until then it is pouring water off a duck’s back. This education stuff is really tough. That is a big part of the reason why Sibel has quit doing public podcasts and blogs with comment sections open to all. You have now gotten a personal taste of this bitter truth.

      • “All that we have become has been the product of layers of experience and learning.’- This reality is worth at least one episode coverage here @ BFP. Personally, this has become a driving force for one of my parenting objectives. My own background was mainly driven by events, settings and situations outside our sphere of control (in many cases it was ‘life happened to us.’). Even the most horrific experiences came with tons of positives (in long term, that is). Now, with my daughter, I try (very hard), to get some exposures for her, by working hard at it, rather than waiting for life present the opportunities (or not!). Does that make sense? Example: I work out opportunities so that we can go and work in SE Asia dealing with outcomes and issues related to leftover war-time landmines … I know that spending a month there, living in the midst of it (not as some tourist in a bubble), teaches her far more than what she’d learn going to school for a year.Last summer she was right next to me, among Syrian refugees and homeless children, for almost a month; while I was interviewing people, making personal connections, photographing, filming …

        I cannot imagine how she’d turn up if she stays where she is, and lives among one category of people, with children whose lives consist of some Barbie crap, Pokémon stuff, eating sugary cereal, watching monster high crap … I cannot. But as far as those around us: that’s the only way; that’s the ‘normal’ way.

        I’m taking on this comment before my needed second shot of morning caffeine … Hope it makes sense;-)

  34. meanwhile over at Wayne Madsen Reports forum, behind the firewall, where Ron Orovitz (not me!) posted a summary of Sibel’s Greenwald talk, check out some of the comments (not posting my response to them on the forum);
    1) Sil made great points regarding Sibel’s background in the NGO world before she took the FBI translator job. At the time, I really resisted the idea of Edmonds being a controlled spook, but I think some evidence is there.
    In fact, I see similaritaries between her AND Greenwald. Both spent years burnishing their creds with time in the MSM limelight in order to gain trust with the Alt-Media types. Greenwald and Snowden are obvious cons and Sibel has done great work exposing that Op, but IMO she herself could be a very sophisticated actor. In her and James Corbett’s cases, its more about what they DON’T say than what they do. (Zionism)
    Take a look at their video “Who is at the Top of the Pyramid” to see what I mean.
    2) in Sibels latest youtube accessible without subscription she mentions in a rambling video the IDF killing children playing soccer on the beach. I will try to listen to the Pyramid vid soonest. There is something comparable with Greenwald and Edmonds as to money as Sibel is pushing her new book release. I agree with you about what Sibel and Corbett DON’T say. Now I don’t agree with you that Snowden is an obvious con. I would like to hear a position that supports that backed up with some facts.
    3) Sibel seems to consistently miss the role of Zionism and the state of Israel in a myriad things, as well as of course the lobby. An obvious red flag as to a disinformation person… Her colleague and frequent collaborator James Corbett notoriously does much the same!

    my conclusion: in this online world anybody can say anything about anything, so that when someone w. credibility makes a serious allegation, it is just more noise. so who needs censorship?

    • CuChulainn,

      ?my conclusion: in this online world anybody can say anything about anything, so that when someone w. credibility makes a serious allegation, it is just more noise. so who needs censorship?” – Yes. Another great observation; a sound conclusion. Couldn’t agree more. Years ago I learned how to deal with it: Tune it out. I almost never waste time checking, reading … dealing with 1000s of forums like this, and millions of people who participate in them. I have made them irrelevant. Because they are: irrelevant.

      • Ronald Orovitz says:

        Yeah, that was me… I relayed the jist of it over there because pedophile blackmail is a subject Madsen often covers (e.g. the Epstein case) and, like yourself Sibel, has been highly critical of the Greenwald/Omidyar/et al trickle-leaks of the NSA docs.

        Another thing: it was about a year ago that another WMR contributor began raising questions about your bona-fides based on what I thought was some very flimsy and impressionistic reasoning (and I said so at the time). Because of your early work in post-Soviet Russia, you must have been a deep state spook all along – such was the reasoning, along with such arguments as ‘if you don’t place the heart of the octopus beast in Jerusalem then you must be a zionist shill!’… or, if you’re not exposing Sandy Hoax or video fakery on 9/11, you’re just a limited hangout gatekeeper.

        Your comment in a previous thread when the subject of Judy Wood’s DEW theory came up was spot on – silence, because you’re not an expert. Indeed, if you mix those subjects upon which you have spoken out based on first hand knowledge and competent expertise with statements on subjects with which you have little expertise, then you ended up sullying the credibility of the former. – This is a point Jim Fetzer should take to heart… His stature as a philosopher of science suffers greatly when he engages in such impressionistic folk-physics as ‘the planes should have crumpled up against the sides of towers like aluminum cans, therefore, the videos must have been faked’!

  35. Very interesting Sibel. One of my big complaints about education as it is taught is that children are taught subjects before they have the life experience to make personal sense of it. When I went to school and was taught American and world history, none of the students had any basis from which to integrate it, to make it meaningful. It just was boringly presented facts. I went all the way through high school and college with nothing academic reaching me. A roommate introduced me to something that opened me to teaching myself.

    To really learn about the world and life one must have personal impressions from which to ask questions from inside if you know what I mean – It is only then that one is prepared to work on developing one’s own personal understanding in a learning environment such as school. Before then school can only be effective in teaching reading, writing, arithmetic, and I’m not sure what else. When it ventures further, it is just instilling the chosen perspectives of the texts used.

    What you are doing Sibel is exactly what I would want to do for a child of mine. It is sort of what your dad did for you. The one caveat is that with so many impressions coming in and only a slowly developing context to integrate I’d make sure that there were lots of opportunities for her to ask any questions that she might have and really go slow filling in blanks that she hasn’t asked for. She is doing one hell of a lot of processing, lucky girl. As a kid I would have thrived on such a regimen.

    Now I better go out and ski and get my body and mind working together!

  36. “children are taught subjects before they have the life experience to make personal sense of it”
    Waldorf education, about which i have only recently learned, is based on the principle that certain integrating experiences are necessary for the development of the whole person–so reading, for example, is not taught until movement and proprioceptive faculties are developed

  37. doublek321 says:

    Sibel – I would love to hear more stories of the sheep dipped patsies. However, I’d also be more than happy to hear you discuss other issues that you think are relevant as well (as long as we also get to hear those additional sheep dipped patsies stories at some point!)

    Your podcast is outstanding btw. It is up there w/ CorbettReport as my favorite. Thank you very much for doing what you do!

    • Welcome to our BFP community, doublek321. Your kind and encouraging words are greatly appreciated.

      We will continue this topic with a few more examples and related points in our next episode (hopefully it will be up by tomorrow-Monday). After that, we’ll move to our next subtopic. As we continue, cover more grounds, we will be revisiting many of these points/cases. Because as we all know they are all connected- each one an ingredient producing this mess of a system.

      Looking forward to your comments and analyses.

  38. Hi Sibel & All,

    I’ve been a subscriber for almost a year and have been really electrified & moved by Classified Woman. Unfortunately I missed the beginning of this new podcast series, so I’ve spent the last two weeks catching up, listening to every episode and reading almost all the comments (I’m bug-eyed now:-). I would echo what so many have been saying, I’ve never seen a web forum with such deep, insightful and respectful discussion as this – it is amazing and clearly no longer an experiment, and we really don’t know where it will ultimately lead. I really appreciate your short, concise an example-filled podcasts, Sibel!

    By way of personal experience, I can say that after waking up about 10 years ago (in my early 60s now, like quite a few others here) I have been lucky to find two like-minded individuals with whom I went ever deeper into the rabbit hole until we felt that we had to somehow communicate what we had found out, and so, upon a question from someone else, we organised a first evening in 2007 looking at 9/11, to much interest, I have to say (I live in rural Scotland, by the way). From that, we went on to talking about Big Pharma, Banking, Justice, geo engineering etc. This turned into a steady group for some time as we came out with new stuff and gradually turned into a discussion group with around 30 members. Over time, that number dwindled though as many people found what we were discussing just too much to handle, but we’re still going today with a greatly reduced number. The point I want to make about it is that we evolved the same kind of unspoken protocol that exists here, namely listening to what others have to say until they have finished, not ridiculing, not attacking, respecting other points of view and, above all, learning from them. And who knows, there are maybe many more such small circles that learn to look the Beast in the eye and as a result the participants change their direction of life. Also, many of those who no longer turn up did say that they now listened to/ read news with completely different ears/eyes.

    Just a few comments: I also have faith, not because it’s the best policy, it’s simply there. What makes a meadow green? The colour of each individual blade of grass. The movement that we are part of here will only grow by awakened individuals, not by ever becoming a mass movement, God forbid. It is crucial that we develop as individuals and learn to cope with our egos, we have them, like it or not. I believe that anyone who does not shy away from looking at themselves in the quiet of their own space (not navel gazing) has the potential to make a difference. A real community consists of individuals who participate out of a free decision to contribute to the greater good; although we are all far from each other, we are like seeds of the same plant species that germinate all over the globe, if you forgive the flowery image. Why do you think that the PTSB are expending so much energy in dumbing people down? A human being on the road to freedom is a disaster for their one size fits all hell.

    At this time I’m not concerned that this is another endless talk forum, I believe that out of this exchange of ideas and experiences will arise the necessary initiatives and actions for each one of us in their own life circumstance & situation; to my mind, slow & sure really is the only way that has any future. Whenever I’ve tried to convince anyone to look at what is really going on I’ve met resistance and I’ve learnt that a quiet word here and there is far more effective in the long run. I find it very stimulating, inspiring and encouraging to read so many different viewpoints & exemplary experiences.

    After listening to Sibel’s Gladio series with Corbett, which was a real eye opener, I am now reading Daniele Ganser’s book on Nato’s Secret Armies, highly recommended. Yes, I would also like more details on the mechanisms of co-opting individuals and organisations, this is invaluable information straight from the horse’s mouth.

    I’m not sure how much I’ll be able to contribute to these conversations, I don’t have the knowledge that so many of you display and it takes me ages to put into words what I know, but I will try. More power to all your elbows!

    Paddy

    • Corylus: Welcome aboard(I’m sure Sibel would say the same). This thread/format of Sibel’s allows one to get into depth and see the thinking powers of too many commenters to name. The unwritten
      rule among us seems that we maintain a level of integrity and avoid carrying on useless ego spats which wastes time. Don’t even bother to acknowledge your ability to contribute. You just did!
      Power to you, man.

    • Corylus (Paddy), I know you’ve been with us for almost a year, but welcome to the forum! If I am not mistaken, I have prepared the packaging and shipped my signed books to you (countries outside the US always grab my attention).

      Thank you for sharing your experience with forming the discussion group. It is heartening. Dwindling or not, I consider it a major positive step. What I find even more interesting: you people did it not virtually, but physically. Am I correct? I know with the internet we are able to overcome the distance, but sometimes I wish we could have local chapters; have that personal contact. There are times I wish I could spend an hour or two chatting with one of you people, or Corbett or Peter B, over a cup of coffee (or pint of Ale;-). Where I come from so much is deducted from body language, eye contact and even subtle gestures (if you have seen my video interview you know what I am talking about: Mediterranean people, Middle Eastern, South Americans … tend to use various body parts to talk; everything is talking!!). On the other hand I see that the virtual medium decreases inhibitions, and possibly allows for more openness. What do you think, since you have experienced both?

      “It is crucial that we develop as individuals and learn to cope with our egos, we have them, like it or not. I believe that anyone who does not shy away from looking at themselves in the quiet of their own space (not navel gazing) has the potential to make a difference.”- Agreed. And I believe this well-communicated observation gets a nod from everyone in this community. On the other hand, I am still looking for that solidarity minus organizational cooption, minus one-size fits all, minus ‘looking for a hero’ syndrome … The question I have ‘Is it possible?’ And before we begin answering that we need to define what we mean by solidarity and a movement that is made of free-willed individuals.

      “…although we are all far from each other, we are like seeds of the same plant species that germinate all over the globe.” – the more I travel, the more I experience, the older I get, the more I see this holding true, and the more amazed I become to see how deeply we are all connected. Just like you, I don’t want to sound too Kumbaya-esque, but I know exactly what you mean.

      “I’m not sure how much I’ll be able to contribute to these conversations, I don’t have the knowledge that so many of you display and it takes me ages to put into words what I know, but I will try. ” – Please do, do join us and add your voice. The more voices, the more perspectives, the more experiences, the more differences in expression, the richer and deeper our discussion. We can learn so much from your ongoing experience with your group. We have members from UK, Turkey, South Africa, Poland, Romania, Iran, Canada, Au, NZ … of course Scotland, that alone shows how connected we actually are … and all the associated experiences and perspectives widens our horizons … our view angle …

      • Sibel said,
        “I am still looking for that solidarity minus organizational cooption, minus one-size fits all, minus ‘looking for a hero’ syndrome … The question I have ‘Is it possible?’ And before we begin answering that we need to define what we mean by solidarity and a movement that is made of free-willed individuals.”

        An analogy which I hope makes sense: At the beach, the sand at the very edge of the water is gloppy and behaves more or less like a thick fluid as the water moves over it. But if you place your weight on it, suddenly it firms up. The science of this is understood and I won’t get technical here, but we’ve probably all experienced the effect. So my analogy is that we individuals here are a bunch of grains of sand, at the shore of time, as it were. As long as no external force is applied, we collectively are just…gloppy. It is the boot of the state pressing down ever harder which is causing us to firm up and become cohesive.

        This analogy goes only so far because sand is passive, and hopefully we’ll strive to be more than
        just an irritant which gets into the boot and chafes the toes.

      • Ron & Sibel, thanks for your friendly welcome. I always get a bit jittery when I put things on any blog, though this one isn’t just “any”! I only participate in one other one relating to weather, which isn’t quite as weighty as what is being discussed here, and I’ve learned to adapt my language so that I hopefully convey what I mean without excess baggage.

        Yes, our meetings are face to face, we all live reasonably close to each other and meet every four weeks. For many years, at the beginning of each meeting I was always worried that it wouldn’t go anywhere, especially when we decided to make it completely free as to what we would discuss, but to my great relief, people always came back for more. We were occasionally accused of being too negative, bringing forward only unpleasant things, so over the years we have changed that and make sure that we always ask the question: right, how can we deal with this [whatever issue] on a personal level, so that we don’t feel depressed? The meetings usually last about two hours and we always finish with a verse that addresses the future – not religious, not Kumbaya, just feet on the ground and looking up.

        OK, I will contribute more regularly, I’m hooked on the conversation/exchange of views anyway and I’m confident that the fact that this conversation exists will have practical implications for all of us, even right now as far as I’m concerned.

        Just listened to Episode 11, will let it work on me overnight.

        Best
        Paddy

  39. Re: WMad rpt. commenters ‘suggesting’ limited hang-outs or ‘disinfo’ by virtue of not discussing ZION.
    Actions in open forum manipulation hold ‘Creation of doubt’ – safeguarding the illicit transformation of probability into certainty etc – as name of the game. The sweep of easily made conjecture, by association, appears in Sunstein ‘conspiracy’ psychology of dis-mis-info on the web. its the easiest thing in the world to ‘soft-tongue’ into a conversation an inference – as Chu examples – and fire it up as ‘own’ opinion or thought. I have done it myself once to great fkng embarrassment-(, but innuendo works like a stain. just by having ‘it’ said – no one controls ‘it’ thereafter ..SUGGESTION is a stuxnet type conversation device . Anyway. Facts speak louder than words .

  40. CuChulainn says:

    Jacob Applebaum spat with Greenwald via Xymphora: https://twitter.com/ioerror/status/568761601202868224
    is JA is of the same ilk as Scahill and GG?

  41. Just a heads up:

    I finished recording our new episode earlier today. I apologize for my scratchy voice (and some cough) in adv. I don’t have a cold, but for some reason I had dry and scratchy throat since I woke up this morning. The new episode should be up by tomorrow morning.

    I will be in Washington State for a minor surgery, but I will be back by Wednesday, and will be able to talk (as normal as possible) by Friday. It is the fourth stage of a tedious process; nothing too serious. When I was 7 I had a car accident (I was crossing the street on my way from school). The impact (not with the car, but from the fall and hitting the asphalt) pretty much destroyed a bunch of bones in my upper jaw, including roots of four teeth. To make the long story short last September I began this series of needed surgeries to implant bones and muscle tissues up in my jaw. The first one, the biggest one, was two days before the release of my book (Sep 11) when I came back with 20+ stitches. We had to allow healing time, then the second one (in November), the third one in January (all under anesthesia), and now the fourth one which will be much smaller/easier and only with conscious sedation. The good news (for me): the last one will be completed by mid May, and I will be all done.

    Just to make sure: Groggy or not I will be checking your responses, analyses and questions;-)

    By the way: I have developed this obsession with going under. You know, when you try to remember every thing, every feeling/sensation until you are completely out? And then try to psyche yourself so that you remember any dreams/hallucinations/etc. while you are out? Anyhow, I find the whole thing really fascinating. A couple of times I had some incredible dreams/hallucination experiences and I actually remembered them (full details). The last time, the anesthesiologist said something like: ‘Okay Sibel, how do you like your Margaritas?’ I said: ‘On the rocks with salt and lots of chilies?’ She said: ‘Okay, here it comes; your Margarita.’ And that’s the last thing, and the only thing, I remembered. So uninteresting and shallow; such a downer!

    • All the best for speedy recovery. I thought I woke up in an hallucination once, only to find this is it. Good luck anyway.

      • 🙂
        Thank you, Remo. I am back and very sore. Okay, the surgeon opted for this thing called ‘Conscious Sedation’- You get groggy, relaxed, and kind of zones out, but not under. I’ve never had that before. So, he gives me one pill to swallow (based on my size one pill is the recommended dosage). He waits 30 minutes. Nothing. I am as alert as I can be! He waits for another fifteen minutes, and still ‘Nothing.’ He gives me another pill. 30 minutes later I am like someone who has had 4 shots of espresso … To make the long story short, after 2.5 pills he gave up. They have never seen anything like this before (And they use conscious sedation everyday). My nerves refuse to get numbed. It was four straight hours of grueling process. Thankfully it is over. And thank you for being so thoughtful.

        • I’m the same way Sibel, not as strongly as I used to be, but that is a long story and by choice and I’ve worked for it. I think that it comes from learning to become hyper alert, hyper vigilant in response to lack of safety/danger. This quality made it possible for you to fight the fights that you have fought. Most people could not tolerate the need to be so awake, so locked in, but for us the alternative can be kinda boring.

        • Sibel, you are an absolute joy to listen to. I’m chucking at this. Are you “Divergent”? I mentioned the “Divergent” trilogy earlier…highly recommend it…by Veronica Roth…young adult fiction (it’s OK to read young adult if you’re mature adult)…excellent story…easy read…talks about revolution, too…and unintended consequences…I mean it…you should at least try reading it. I started “Lone Gladio”…hard to put it down…I’ll bet you can double or triple the sales by putting it in audio form…you should look into that seriously…compelling story…on many levels. Most of the books I read now I listen to in audio due to time constraints. And, you should get yourself an agent…”Lone Gladio” is good movie material…I hinted at this earlier….definitely, you should look into that.

  42. Vis a vis the issue of people’s negative reactions to this kind of information, I think it’s important to remember to be basically sympathetic and patient. As we’ve all seen with 9/11 (and the JFK assassination, inter alia), even faced with court-ready evidence many people find it very difficult to accept obvious truths, because you’re fighting against a whole lot of programming. If you give them what amounts to innuendo, no matter how well-informed the source, and ask them to make their own inferences and to accept it with no way to prove/disprove/corroborate, it’s no surprise to be met with skepticism, even hostility.

    We’re effectively saying don’t believe the mainstream media or the government when they say they have secret evidence; instead believe us when we say we have secret evidence.

    Somewhat problematic, right? I mean let’s be honest and consistent. There is a difference though, and that’s the context. Understanding context takes time.

    It’s part of the problem of understanding and communicating this shadowy world of intelligence operations. One needs a massive amount of (self) education, training, and experience to be able to weigh things out and decide what is and isn’t plausible. And then you weigh up the track record of the source. For people who are coming in cold, well, it’s going to be tough.

    We’re not really ever asking people to believe one thing. We’re really asking them to dedicate themselves to a time-consuming process of knowledge. Many are called, few are chosen, as the saying goes.

    • To john

      It isn’t just programming we’re up against. It’s also aversion to discomfort. With knowledge comes sorrow, and fear.

      If the sheep were to contemplate following us, it would be like going off the edge of their carefully circumscribed world map. “There be dragons…”

      We may have more expansive maps, but I’d wager we all have our red lines we cannot cross – at least not in this kind of discourse. What I’m willing to discuss here is a subset of what I think I know. The rest is unspoken because of fear of loss of credibility, and not daring to give something unbearable a definite form by speaking of it.

      We may be in a bigger room, so to speak, but it still has walls and a ceiling.

      • Agreed. I’d also say aversion to discomfort is part of the programming, but it works both ways, i.e., our steady diet of fear makes us crave comfort, and also we’re programmable because we like to hear what we like to hear.

        I’m currently doing a PhD, part of which involves exploring — in an academically acceptable way — the irrational within the rational. For example, why should eminently normal scientific questions (e.g., “why was there molten steel in the WTC debris?”) be treated in “polite society” as mad crazy wacky ridiculous (and how do they get away with treating it like that?)?

        This disconnect between how we (inaccurately) think of the ordinary world, e.g., what we read in the papers, as dead hard scientific and rational, and all the ways it is based on such flimsy pretenses, that’s both part of the problem and possibly part of the solution. I think of the job as popping the bubble of suspended disbelief. (But I can’t use speculation or assertions based on secret evidence at all, not in my thesis, except as indicators of the difficulties involved.)

      • Knarf,

        “It’s also aversion to discomfort. With knowledge comes sorrow, and fear.”- So very true. I’d list this as one of top 3 reasons/obstacles. Another related trend: Intentional comfort. A good example: Let’s say in many countries where they have large number of street kids. They are right there, everywhere you go. When you are sitting in a café eating/drinking-they are there; right in front of you. The uniform reaction from the people: erase it from your view; you just don’t ‘see’ them;’ intentionally make them invisible, and with that achieve that ‘comfort.’ It is like self-administered anesthetic.

      • steven hobbs says:

        Knarf,

        Thank you for making this distinction: “What I’m willing to discuss here is a subset of what I think I know. The rest is unspoken because of fear of loss of credibility, and not daring to give something unbearable a definite form by speaking of it.”

        Hummm? Let’s also talk about what we know — simply. Let’s speak the unspeakable so as to not be at effect of the unspoken.

        Maybe it would be useful to have a subsection of this thread about epistemology, i.e., how we believe we know what we claim to know.

        • steven,

          In terms of certain ideas or theories I might propose or even dare to believe, I can’t speak to what underpins them beyond whatever sense they may make. Ultimately it’s up to the reader to assess and judge anything from any source, even if a script was supposedly inscribed by the Finger of God.

          You could interpret it to mean I literally don’t know how I got a certain notion, or I can’t be specific without opening up a bigger can of worms. I’ve discovered cans of worms are nested like matryoshka dolls. When that’s the case, if we go off into, “how did you get to THAT perception?”, the exercise would raise more questions than it answers.

          Sibel was able to document and describe her path in a linear fashion. It reads as though she started off accepting the General Mainstream Illusion, and had her illusions progressively stripped away. That’s a rational and believable process.

          I don’t have such a story – no “path” to lay out – because I can’t remember any point in my life after the age of 12 or so when I wasn’t already “here” in this place where we believe there’s a curtain and endeavor to look behind. Since the age of awareness I’ve always been “here” in terms of my perceptual framework, though I’ve been and still am woefully uneducated about so many relevant subjects. I’m here to learn, hungry to learn. These Probable Cause podcasts and most certainly the fantastic comments attached to these podcasts are beyond fascinating. In the past few weeks I’ve spent a triple digit number of hours following up on tidbits from the podcasts and comments. It’s a bit overwhelming how one thing branches into five others. It’s becoming apparent this Beast we’re perceiving by its tentacles, is a vast and highly evolved organism.

          The analogy which comes to me is my sister’s fatal brain cancer, some years ago. She had GBM multiforme, which is a cancer of the glial cells. They’re the brain “superstructure” which supports and contains the neurons and nerves. In this context, comparing the cancer in our world to the cancer in her brain, I would characterize the “revolution” which we’ve kicked around, to surgery. Find the tumor, cut it out. That’s not a cure for GBM, because it’s highly invasive. The tumors have no definite borders – they send cancerous tendrils throughout the brain. Surgery can debulk a tumor which is causing a problem due to sheer mass, and that same surgery can make a space to insert special chemo wafers which deliver toxins to the cancer cells from close range. But surgery cannot cure because the tendrils remain and keep growing. What will eventually cure this and other cancers, I’ll make a somewhat educated guess, is a therapy to plug the holes in the immune system template which permit cancer cells to masquerade as normal cells.

          We may or may not have a revolution, and if it comes it may or may not be authentic. But in the best case it will only be a stopgap unless society’s immune system “wakes up” and learns to discriminate (that ugly, non-PC word) dangerous, manipulative psychopaths from ordinary joes. This is where the cancer analogy falls apart, because cancer is not actively and intelligently malicious. Cancer cells will not stage a mass-terror attack or holocaust when they feel threatened, but the scum-of-the-earth might.

          We seem to be in the diagnostic stage concerning the societal cancer we face. We’re not sure how extensive it is, where the locus is if there is one, how many tendrils surround us. It’s actively concealing itself and sabotaging or even murdering those who investigate it.

          Regardless of the epistemology of a theory or an idea about what’s really going on, it’s only worth a spit if it leads closer to the truth, and that assessment can only be made in retrospect. May we all live long enough to stand on proven truth and have the chance to look back to see what was noise and what wasn’t.

          • steven hobbs says:

            John,
            I appreciate your intent toward concision and avoiding worms. I too wish to keep things simple – and elegant if possible.
            You state, “I can’t speak to what underpins them [believed theories?] beyond whatever sense they may make.” A distinction previously made by another’s comment, is that “belief” doesn’t require thought. I’m more interested in what you are thinking and the reasons you are thinking that. If you have a belief that you’ve arrived at through thinking, the process of getting there is interesting, if not necessarily persuasive. I’ve enjoyed reading your entries because you do have fresh things to say. So, I for one wouldn’t mind your speaking your mind, whether it be a narrative of lived experience as Sibel, or imaginative speculation, research of authors’ confluent stories, or even drug induced revelation.
            A simple, if somewhat inadequate, solution might be to give a confidence score on the thoughts (beliefs) you have, such as pure speculation to near certainty. It’s up to you what you share. What underpins our “truth” is our epistemic theory and assumptions, but that’s another can of worms. Perhaps another time.
            Peace/Justice
            s

          • steven hobbs says:

            OOps Sorry John, I intended to address Knarf.. sorry Knarf.

    • CuChulainn says:

      yes, john, this voyage of consciousness towards understanding the context is a long one for most of us, for me at least there was a high degree of engagement in world events from the earliest age; most USAers i know are not political people, so their passivity in these matters is no surprise; i wonder if there are any here who have NOT always struggled for political awareness, but who found it in a moment of worldly satori, as it were???
      https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm
      12. The spectacle presents itself as something enormously positive, indisputable and inaccessible. It says nothing more than “that which appears is good, that which is good appears. The attitude which it demands in principle is passive acceptance which in fact it already obtained by its manner of appearing without reply, by its monopoly of appearance.
      13. The basically tautological character of the spectacle flows from the simple fact that its means are simultaneously its ends. It is the sun which never sets over the empire of modern passivity. It covers the entire surface of the world and bathes endlessly in its own glory.

      • Can’t believe you just linked to Debord — he’s an integral part of my PhD. It’s actually a creative writing PhD but there’s a political angle through the lens of surrealism, the situationists, and a bunch of postmodernist philosopher types.

        • CuChulainn says:

          Debord may be the most useful thinker since Marx; Sanguinetti & Bordiga also helpful in understanding terrorism. Francis Cousin works in this tradition, worth reading/listening to (go to scriptoblog, only in french tho). cheers john.

          • Thanks for the additional references CuChulainn — haven’t read those other guys, will scope ’em out. My french is less than passable, may have to seek out translations of Cousin. Baudrillard, Badiou, and Lacan are also really useful and interesting on things related to spectacle, illusion, the unreality in reality — what is it about the French?!

          • CuChulainn says:

            maybe the question is not what is it about the French, but what is it about the Anglos that they don’t see all this–and there too Marx/Engels give us the answer: the European revolutionary tradition, the invasions of pre-capitalist germanic peoples, centuries of peasant uprisings, culminating in the Paris commune, this tradition was defeated by Anglo capitalism, and finally annihilated in yankee lands, which developed in accordance with the laws of capital, with immigration as its reserve army. hence the dilemma of our contemporary “revolutionary” capitalist libertarians, pour les causes et contre les conséquences. unfortunately no translations of FC that i know of.

  43. …and now GG wins his Oscar just to rub in in
    http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/feb/23/edward-snowden-documentary-citizenfour-wins-oscar
    he seems to be winning every award under the sun whilst nothing material changes for the better for the masses.

    so many well wishers online and yet these same people would vote for the same government that has extended this mass surveillance. cognitive dissonance abounds.

  44. Chu;) Bathing the world endlessly in OLD glory? isn’t it. But I think the propagandists, those working under the Rovian “if you can see our hand in it we are’nt doing our job properly” mode, they have an understanding of ‘Death’ and ‘Time’ those ‘being bathed’ don’t have any awareness of. So would rather applaud GG for oscar while not developing any independent inquiry into who what why and how. Oscar covers any question.
    The light of old glory shining on US all.
    And a snow job is called a snow job because snow blunts the edges. covers the blood on the ground. allows a nostalgia to filter the lost heart.

    • And a snow job is called a snow job because snow blunts the edges. covers the blood on the ground. allows a nostalgia to filter the lost heart.

      Beautiful Remo

    • remo, Rovians and other masters of Capital, as they narcissistically imagine, are themselves mastered by it–our seeming overlords are the most enslaved, their sad vices attest–one gets power by serving Power, the Luciferian constellation
      yes nostalgia is useless, reworked this translation of Debord, maybe it applies to Sibel’s purpose– http://www.notbored.org/immigrant-question.html
      The will be peoples on earth even once France has disappeared. We cannot foresee what ethnic mix will dominate here, their cultures, even their languages. But we can affirm that the central question, a profoundly qualitative one, will be this: will these future peoples, though a practice of emancipation, prevail over the technologies and machinations of our time, which are globally those of simulacrum and dispossession? or, on the contrary, will they be dominated by these contrivances in an even more subordinate and enslaved manner than we ourselves today? We must anticipate the worst and fight for the best. The loss of France is a shame. But regrets are vain.

  45. Given the premise of Lone Gladio, Hebdo was a cinch. Hollande telling US to quit the Russian Sanctions… woah ! A few journo’s and an artist or two is of little concern to OG in fact, the ‘free press’ angle is an award winner… A couple of minor hiccups…the THIRD offender very quickly seeing his face on social media as designated patsy driver giving himself up immediately to local cops thus protecting him until innocence firmly established ; the ‘suicide’ of Police Chief Helric Fredou; what WAS in that report? Ah well. So much going on. These are only internet observations after all and I have no idea why the prone Policeman’s head remained intact and did not show any impact/damage/blood from an almost point blank Kalashnikov head shot onto footpath…..anyway..all those signs – free speech etc [talk about Bernays!]
    -The next thought sweeps it away.

    That our ‘intellectual elites’ let us down, was firmly established within 2.25 seconds of Free Fall WTC7 – the speed of deceit. And knowing that the fates that rule the world will sodomize the 911 conspirators rotting corpses for eternity in the after-life does not satisfy my present yearning for truth to be exposed on the bench of LAW in-our-time ! and stamped into the Literature of the WORLD : THESE were the conspirators of 911 :THESE were the mass murderers of 911 and all murders subsequent predicated on that transformative event.

  46. Mgrdichian says:

    Sheep-dipped or just pathetic? Since I live here I’d love to hear everyone comments.
    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajw0LQ6AVBc&w=560&h=315%5D

    • Mgrdichian; That panel were an interesting mix of pathetic and sheep-dipped. My guess is that the ‘journalists’ seated to the right of screen/frame were sheep-dipped, and those towards the left were more towards the pathetic end of the same spectrum. The gentleman to the far left seemed to be the only one acting under the influence of reason.

      Makes me sick to watch, but I appreciete the awful reminder of what mundane, mind control and propaganda looks like in the mainstream media.

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