Probable Cause with Sibel Edmonds: People vs. Official Narratives-Official Lies

Welcome to our fifteenth episode of Probable Cause. In today’s episode I will be presenting you with an overview of two possible topics for our coming episodes, and will have you decide the path. We begin the podcast with the subject of perspectives, and the difference between full-bellied luxurious but fluffy philosophical discussions and fulfilling our responsibilities to humanity and society at large. Next, we talk about Official Narratives-Official Lies, and discuss the reasons behind the public’s acceptance of official narratives-official lies despite history, evidence and common sense: Can we write it all off as ignorance? Considering the known history of official narratives as massive official lies are we looking at willful and conscious ignorance and denial?

As always, our next episode will be based on your reaction, critique, responses and questions posed in the comments section below.

*To listen to our previous episodes on this topic click here

Listen to the full episode here:

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  1. Castillonis says:

    1. If we are capable, it is our duty to discuss the deception, exploitation, etc of other beings including animals and the environment. Roughly, the right of a person to throw their fist ends at the beginning of the other persons nose. (Oliver Wendell Holmes, or earlier) We are often frustrated with journalists, politicians, and other leaders choice to completely preserve their privileges and position in society. We are disappointed and frustrated that they are not an advocate for those in need, but a shill. Though, I sincerely urge a person to consider their context and circumstances so they can be supportive of those in need over the longer term. Gain wisdom, and do not be manipulated or easily deceived.
    2. People are both truly ignorant and willfully ignorant.
    a. True ignorance: Members of this forum probably consume more information and are familiar with certain historical events, leaders names, etc. I remember when I was about 22 years old. A single mother at my university seemed to be interested in me and asked me what periodicals I read. I replied with the names of some typical weekly news periodicals and she was quite dismissive. I asked her what she read and one of the periodicals was Z magazine. I had already read Agee when I was a teenager and I had realized that something was seriously wrong with our foreign policy when we attacked Panama with so much ferocity and civilian casualties. The world is like an onion where we might slowly peel away the different layers in search of reality. Traces of reality 😉 This is an example of me growing and slowly starting to recognize more and more throughout life.
    b Willful ignorance: Often people are willfully ignorant out of convenience, selfishness, or self preservation. Some things in our society make it easier for people to be willfully ignorant. Physical distance or isolation from those who are exploited or suffer. Lack of basic struggles in their own life or teachings by parents, teachers, etc. Indoctrination or association with groups, companies or family that emphasize the value of material things or instill loyalty. Willful ignorance requires more explanation and can easily be decomposed into different types, but I need to stop here.

  2. We are responsible to take advantage of opportunities we have to expose and depose the psychopathic parasites who live atop our economies and governments. We are responsible to help change the paradigm which tolerates and rewards psychopathic behavior. That is the best we can do for everyone living on this planet.

    We are responsible to take action, such as standing up and shouting out, “Liar!” at political and campaign speeches. ANY candidate, ANY party, whenever we hear them mouth the Typical BS. I wonder if the media could manage to ignore dozens or even hundreds of people doing just that at speech after speech, event after event, during the 2016 political season.

    Drive the psychopaths into a corner and make them give their speeches to small, hand-picked crowds. Undermine the paradigm of seeming mass public support for them and their lies.

    • Knarf, I am in the middle of posting a passionate commentary by Dr. Roberts on John Whitehead’s latest book. I think you’ll like it. It goes beyond talk and calls for ‘action.’ Let me know what you think of it (It should be up in a few minutes).

      • 344thBrother says:

        http://thenewsdoctors.com/can-evil-be-defeated-dr-paul-craig-roberts/

        “Whitehead says that armed revolt is not an option. He believes that the tens of millions, perhaps 100 million, Americans who have pistols, rifles, and shotguns are not only unorganized, but outgunned. The 21st century has been used to militarize state and local police forces and to brutalize their attitude toward the American public. Even police in small towns now have helicopters, armored personnel carriers, tanks, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, drones, night vision, heat sensors, sensors that can see through the walls of houses and into cars.

        If this is not enough, in comes the National Guard or federal troops, Army Rangers, Navy Seals. Or simply the release of germs. Washington can deal with its citizens the same way it dealt with the indigenous peoples we call Indians. ”

        “Now, to Whitehead’s answer to what can we do. He says that we can mount “militant nonviolent resistance.” This worked for Christians in the decomposing Roman Empire.

        It worked for Mahatma Gandhi in India against the British colonialists. It was working for Martin Luther King in America before he was assassinated, most likely by the FBI.

        Whitehead says that the mass of the citizenry cannot be assassinated. If citizens simply stop cooperating by listening to the lies on TV, by purchasing the devices used to control them, by amusing themselves in front of propaganda screens, by learning again how to think, how to be human, how to be moral, the American police state can be defeated.”

        Dr. Roberts has my complete respect.
        p
        d

        • 344thBrother says:

          While I agree with Mr. Whitehead that armed Americans are outgunned and out trained and out equipped, we out number them by mass mass mass quantities and those of us who ARE armed are the most likely to participate in the “militant non-violent resistance” he talks about.

          And, I would add that neither the police nor the military are uniformly going along with all the idiocy the Federal Gooberment are foisting on them. I believe the majority (Guess-timation at least 75%) of them are going to ditch the uniforms as soon as anything really big or militant gets going. I have to believe this, maybe it’s my own personal blind spot.
          p
          d

          • 344thBrother says:

            The flip side of my above estimation is that the “4:20” organization has training classes specifically training NATIONAL GUARD troops in “Highway interdiction” of cash… all because… 911 doncha know. That’s not good.
            p
            d

          • Dave,

            I share your belief. We have dozens of veterans here @ BFP. And I am looking for many more.

            I just posted Sorensen’s latest report. He is one: solid, informed, and on our side.

          • wallace gromit says:

            well, i think looking back at how exactly everything unfolded last year in ukraine is something that can show a lot to any observer here in the west, especially north america and western continental europe. the resistance to the coup government was almost solely from military and LE men who were deployed to the donbass region early on, before open hostilities really.

            there are lots of things to consider but i think it mostly bodes well when you do examine the first 4-5 months of 2014 in ukraine, with an eye to this context. matters of military/LE culture, wages, stability and corruption of these institutions, and the cultural makeup of them vis-a-vis the national culture– compared with what we have here in NA.

            none of this is unknown by the enemy anyway, which is probably why they are pushing very hard on all the fronts they seemingly can, whether its through weather modification in the sky, doing various things to affect water supply/quality. food, and a number of other things to keep pressure on us as individual members of the (potential?) tax base

        • steven hobbs says:

          Hi Brother,
          “It was working for Martin Luther King in America before he was assassinated, most likely by the FBI.. Whitehead says that the mass of the citizenry cannot be assassinated. If citizens simply stop cooperating.. learning again how to think, how to be human, how to be moral, the American police state can be defeated.”
          Many are unaware US gov. was found in a court of law by a jury to be culpable in MLK’s assassination. Lots of good that’s done. Haven’t yet read Whitehead. Non-cooperation, and finding ways to make the state irrelevant is essential to disempowering it. Let’s not forget that revolutions are successful after elements of the police and military join the revolution.

          • Steven,

            ‘ Non-cooperation, and finding ways to make the state irrelevant is essential to disempowering it. Let’s not forget that revolutions are successful after elements of the police and military join the revolution.’- Couldn’t agree more. And from I see this seems to be one of the common threads agreed-upon (in one way or another) by the majority of our activists here. Please correct me if I’m wrong on this observation.

  3. I just saw a twit from this group: http://eyesonoakland.tumblr.com/

    I have no idea who they are or how they are funded/connected, but it is heartening to see ‘action’ versus ‘all talk;’ no? However simple, however small, a bunch of people saying: ‘let’s do this. Maybe we can wake up only a few people- but isn’t it better than doing nothing?’

    This is what I mean by ‘engaging in some actions however little/small.’

    • Castillonis says:

      Meghann Farnsworth is Director of distribution and engagement for The Center for Investigative Reporting and has worked there for five years. Tonight she told me that at one of their events, Cole suggested that MAP Mobile Arts Platform work with them on one of their projects. Ali Winston is the Reporter who is working on the story about the “Domain Awareness Center” project in Oakland, Ca.
      photos: imgur.com/a/aoaR7
      Much of the information about their organization is easy to access on their web site. The list of supporters of their large 5013c organization may make you want to run for the hills. I asked Meghann if they have ever been asked not to cover a story. She told me that they would not accept funding from an organization that would ask them to do so. I also asked Meghann the reason for the new name Revealnews org. She said that they had a new podcast and they wanted to avoid confusion.
      Journalist Ali Wintson said that the Port of Oakland was not able to afford staffing the “Domain Awareness Center” That “The Port pulled back the funds and is repurposing them”

      • Castillonis,

        Thank you for the info. I am a bit familiar with ‘The Center for Investigative Reporting.’ From what I’ve seen they have done some very good work in some specific areas. That’s to their credit. On the other hand, they have consciously avoided other topics within their domain of interest due to … Some say ‘selectivity due to partisanship’ while others say ‘they have their own set of bosses.’ I don’t have any facts to support or reject any of those claims.

        I am sorry to hear about the funding for “Domain Awareness Center.” Projects like this represents ‘hope and action.’ See, something like this should be easily funded by people directly- individual donations.

        Again, I don’t know these people, and I don’t know about their politic or ‘other’ objectives. For me, the important part: a bunch of people who see and oppose the evils of the surveillance state coming together, and saying: ‘Let’s do something about this. Let’s take action.’ It is going beyond: let’s write another article on this, or, let’s give another ranting interview on this, to inform people. So, they come up with something that is simple, small, but nonetheless ‘actionable.’ No matter the level of effectiveness, just doing that may provide others with the motivation to come up with ‘actionable’ items.

        This was one of the points I was trying to make about: action phase for BFP activist community. It may be taking on one neighborhood, it may be driving a car with a banner for a couple of hours each weekend, it may be … Sometimes, some small movements like this, flourishes and becomes something more. And so what if it fails? Then, another actionable item can be tried. And then may be another …

        Anyhow. Their twit popped up in my twitter account, and made me pause and take notice (so rare for me when it comes to social networking sites). I thought, ‘hey, it may be a couple of guys and one van, but kudos for trying it- we are tired of problem statements (inform, inform, inform), and need some actions that go with all these talks.

        Again, thank you for following up and providing me with the info.

        • Castillonis says:

          Just to clarify 😉 The DAC Domain Awareness Center is “a planned surveillance hub which aims to integrate public and private sensors all over the city of Oakland.” It began with large grants from DHS. It is not an organization that originates from the people and for the people.
          https://localwiki.org/oakland/Domain_Awareness_Center

          I also have read some great reporting from the Center for Investigative Reporting and accept that people and organizations are more complex than a simple label of good and bad. I was trying to address some of the items that you revealed in your discussion of journalism organizations. I greatly appreciate the insight that you have imparted during your podcasts on these subjects. I don’t think it would be possible for me to know some of these things without you describing your experiences.

          While I was searching for the MAP “Eyes on Oakland” van at the “First Friday” art and street fair,I noticed people from stopmassincarceration @StopMassIncNet speaking through a bullhorn and handing out leaflets announcing protests in Oakland and SF on April 14th. Next to them were police. Behind the police were about fifteen people protesting Taco bell. Many of the people ignored the stopmassincarceration people. I should have taken some photos of this as well.

          Tonight, I just gave a young lady money so that she could joing BoilingFrogsPost.

  4. Alas, I see twits everywhere I look…

    In regards to public surveillance, they make really good air rifles these days. Just sayin’….

  5. 344thBrother says:

    “Considering the known history of official narratives as massive official lies are we looking at willful and conscious ignorance and denial?”

    From my perspective it’s a mix. There’s no shortage of willful ignorance for sure. “I don’t want to know” isn’t that rare, and it wasn’t even back during the Vietnam war.

    Then there’s the people who have been fooled by any of a number of different devices. “Patriotism”. (Support the troops).

    Religion. (Jews are God’s chosen people).

    Terrorism. “We have to kill them over there or we’ll have to kill them over here”

    Education: False history of all kinds taught in schools and newspapers and by so called “Experts” who are just propagandists.

    TV. All that.

    It goes on for a while. BUT I believe that we are steadily eating into the official narrative and I think it has them running scared. I sense panic, but I also sense that it’s about high time to crash the economy (Before it crashes of its own accord) and take us to war… and that will once again change the playing field. Positions will harden. People will take sides. Conflict will intensify within and without America.

    Then, it’s anybody’s guess, but to quote Jerry Garcia “I never saw a winner who didn’t bet”.
    peace
    d

    • Hi Dave,

      As always, well-articulated response.

      “…and that will once again change the playing field. Positions will harden. People will take sides. Conflict will intensify within and without America.”- Do you see this as a case of ‘it gets worse before it gets better?’ or ‘linear worse’?

      P.S.- For the past two nights my girl has had her ‘special coin’ on the night-stand next to her bed;-) Greatly appreciated.

      • 344thBrother says:

        “.”- Do you see this as a case of ‘it gets worse before it gets better?’ or ‘linear worse’? ”
        I really can’t say,
        my crystal ball is dark on this one.
        I don’t think I will live to see the result,
        I just hope that what I do while I’m here has meaning in the future.
        I pray that some day there will be real peace.
        I pray my children live to see it.
        I dream of a time when, just like on New Years eve 2000 people all over the world
        will sing and dance and celebrate their cultures
        and be loved and appreciated for everything that they are.
        I remember that so vividly
        we can all be ourselves
        we can be together
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4vg2uOR3fk
        Tear down the wall

        Happy about your daughter. : )
        peace
        d

  6. CuChulainn says:

    inerseting idea to explore official, agreed upon lies–there is an element of codependency here, call it Stockholm syndrome, or more crudely the bitch who needs to be abused, the sentient cadaver
    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm
    The images detached from every aspect of life fuse in a common stream in which the unity of this life can no longer be reestablished. Reality considered partially unfolds, in its own general unity, as a pseudo-world apart, an object of mere contemplation. The specialization of images of the world is completed in the world of the autonomous image, where the liar has lied to himself. The spectacle in general, as the concrete inversion of life, is the autonomous movement of the non-living.

    • “… or more crudely the bitch who needs to be abused…”

      Been there, got the t-shirt. Those who’ve cast themselves in the role of perpetual victim subconsciously demand their significant to play the role of abuser. Consciously they’ll say how much they appreciate being treated nicely for a change, but their subconscious has a different viewpoint, and it prevails in the end.

      The same role-playing is at work in friends who’ve decided they’re helpless victims of society and multiple levels of government – for example in regards to operating a small business. A psychological “place” one dwells in long enough, even the place of a suffering victim, becomes a comfort zone eventually. Providing evidence they’re being comprehensively lied to only reaffirms their preconceptions and has little chance of overcoming inertia.

      What is it that finally gets people out of their comfort zone? Sibel wrote a fantastic book about what opened her eyes. An evolving perception of 9/11 was the impetus for some or perhaps many here.

      I’ve been down the rabbit hole all my adult life but I was mostly passive until personal circumstances drove home what Tice said about power, which to paraphrase is that no position of real power is filled without leverage being in place. I’ve personally observed positions of trust abused horribly, while those who naively try to escalate the issue discover “Ethics Hotlines” are actually baited traps for troublemakers. The psychopaths come into their own when they figure out their kind are in charge up the foodchain, and that they can get away with almost anything and even use their sins as currency as long as they’re willing to “play ball”.

      In a nutshell, for me the impetus to do something is the realization our situation is that of being subject to machinations of the criminally insane. 9/11 was insane. Perpetual war is insane. Pedophiles and murderers acting as king-makers in government and industry is INSANE.

      Insane with power is mortally dangerous to all. It leaves no space for a comfort zone.
      .

      • CuChulainn says:

        thanks for that Knarf
        the bottom line is that the illusion of capitalism with a human face has become unsustainable.
        these pedophiles and murderers are creatures of capital; their power is borrowed, leveraged as you say, contingent on serving power. they have no more real power than they have power over themselves

      • wallace gromit says:

        for me, it all comes down to the phrase “give people an inch and they take a mile”

        you can’t keep people honest by acting wastefully and naive. on a mass scale, looking at humanity, we cant have stability or safety as a species if we refuse to hold ourselves accountable, to an individual and as human beings, each one to another.

        its this habitual buck passing and ignorance of concrete realities which is the root cause of most of what we talk about here, i really do feel. but there are so many facets of the problems, as well as potential avenues for solutions… the complex part isnt the overall lay of the land, its the getting moving on the action. its the affecting of the concrete reality which functions, at this time, to exploit us, because we’re here, ready and (mostly) willing to be

    • CuChulainn,

      “…call it Stockholm syndrome”- I have heard that analogy being used within this context before- it has always made sense to me.

  7. doublek321 says:

    Hi Sibel,

    First off, I love your podcast and am a BFP subscriber. I will likely add to my donation as well. I apologize that I didn’t even know BFP had a fund-raiser recently so thank you for mentioning it on the podcast.

    As for the 2 topics, I like both of them and hope you cover them both at some point. I think my preference, however, would be for you to cover the 2nd topic first (the one about proven cover-ups and the public’s reaction, or potential willful ignorance, to them). I think a lot of people (though, not all) truly believe the mainstream narrative because they’re busy w/ their own lives (e.g. working during the day and trying to relax when they get home) and don’t follow politics.

    For those people, I think they fall into the “make the lie big and keep repeating it” trap (Joseph Goebbels quote). I believe it’s a case where TPTB are trying to use the “psychology of crowds” to their benefit. Side note: James Corbett did an outstanding episode on Edward Bernays (a.k.a. “the father of propaganda”) here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlFqy8g8lNs&feature=youtu.be&t=6m15s).

    I have tried to “examine” this phenomenon in my own life. I have several relatives who have impressive credentials (e.g. doctors and Ivy educated people with advanced degrees who finished near the top of their class). They are undoubtedly exceptionally intelligent but I find it very interesting how even they are unquestioning of the “official narrative”. One example was when a relative told me that it would be the dumbest thing for China to not continue to loan money to the US. I got into a discussion about this and was continually able to counter these types of arguments (e.g. I’d respond with “but the only way we ever pay them back is with more of their borrowed money so, ultimately, how does continuing to lend to the US make sense for China?”) I feel like I won every point as the person got somewhat flustered at not being able to defend their positions (while all the while I was “Peter B. Collins calm”).

    Another example is a discussion I had with a (fairly long time practicing) doctor about the potential danger of vaccines. When I mentioned that autism is skyrocketing, I got rebuffed with arguments like “it’s because they’ve broadened the spectrum of what classifies as autism”.

    It’s hard to argue with a doctor about science but I was disappointed in how easily it seemed (at least in my opinion) that the person fell into what I’ll call the “feasible alternative explanation trap”. When I got involved in that conversation I was thinking that there was a far greater chance that someone who studied science would always be of a mindset that “it only takes one example to disprove a previously held belief, regardless of how long or how strongly that belief was held.” To counter-balance what I just wrote, my “sample set” is very small so I don’t think a generalization can be made from this. It should, however, count as “anecdotal evidence”.

    I should mention that I noticed that there was a “sense of defensiveness” in the person’s voice when the argument was made. I almost wonder if it’s (to use a term from the game of poker) a “tell”. And maybe what it’s telling is that people almost desperately want to defend the “official narrative” because the idea that an “alternative narrative” could exist is too scary to consider. To again counter-balance what I just wrote, it should be said that it’s also possible that I have it wrong and am looking too deeply into things (e.g. maybe the frustration came from truly believing the argument).

    One other thing that occurs to me when thinking about this is how looking into how professionals are taught. For example, I wonder if there’s a big difference in the way a “research scientist” is taught (and how it affect their “critical thinking”) vs how a “medical practitioner” is taught (and how it affect theirs). Potentially a practitioner might be of the mindset of “following instructions” (e.g. implementing the steps they were taught in med school) as opposed to continually questioning the science behind why and how those steps were chosen (which feels more in line with the “scientific method”). To counter-balance my previous point, it is just a theory and, thus, might not be correct.

    On a separate (but related) topic, I think Sandy Hook has the potential to be a “game changer” (in a good way). Wolfgang Halbig is extremely well respected and has very impressive credentials (see the bottom of this post for the details). He has claimed to have documents that show “without a doubt” that the school was “not in operation” during the day of the alleged shooting. He said that, amongst other things, the school was loaded with lead paint and asbestos. I recommend checking out this interview:
    https://youtu.be/VneunCqfUNM?t=53m35s

    If Halbig’s claims are proven, it’s hard to imagine (at least to me) that TPTB could even come up with a “feasible alternative explanation”. Potentially that could “let the cat out of the bag” to where the “scary alternative explanation” of things could no longer be easily dismissed with “you wear a tin foil hat” type responses. If things get to that point then stuff like 9/11 truth could broached and we’ll have a shot at really waking up a lot more people.

    ==============================================================================
    http://www.sandyhookjustice.com/information.html

    Formerly the Executive Director of the National Institute for School and Workplace Safety, Wolfgang Halbig has recently formed a new safety and security company, WK & Associates. Previous to founding NISWS, Mr. Halbig worked in public education as a teacher, dean, assistant principal, principal, director of an alternative school and as the Director for School Safety and Security of the Seminole County Public Schools, a school district of approximately 65,000 students.

    Mr. Halbig also has law enforcement experience as a former Florida State Trooper in Miami, Florida, and as a United States Customs Inspector. As a result of his unique background in both law enforcement and education, Mr. Halbig has been invited to provide presentations and keynotes to a variety of audiences, including the National Education Law Conference, the National School Board Association, the Oklahoma School Board Association, the Illinois School Board Association, the New York State School Board Association and the Florida School Board Association.

    A nationally recognized school safety and security expert and consultant, he has provided safety training and school assessments for more than 8,000 school districts nationwide.
    ==============================================================================

    • 344thBrother says:

      doublek you wrote: ” I have several relatives who have impressive credentials (e.g. doctors and Ivy educated people with advanced degrees who finished near the top of their class). They are undoubtedly exceptionally intelligent but I find it very interesting how even they are unquestioning of the “official narrative”. One example was when a relative told me that it would be the dumbest thing for China to not continue to loan money to the US. ”

      Your and my experiences agree. “Education and brains” don’t seem to correlate to reason, logic or facts. Some of the smartest people I know persist in some of the dumbest “reasoning” anywhere. Try this out on your relative on China. Do a simple search for “foreign trade zone map” and then read the accompanying list. Find the FTZ’s closest to you (They’ll be there guranteed). China isn’t taking our money for nothing. It seems to be a bloodless coup and takeover of us from the inside out.

      and welcome to the group
      peace
      d

      • wallace gromit says:

        its worth considering how these people are safe and fed. they are so because they are preferred persons to powerful and wealthy institutions. why are they so? because they are gatekeepers, clerks, maintenance workers, PR people, and so on, that are employed to keep sturdy these apparatuses of power.

        they are making decisions based on self-preservation when they express those ideals… its not unlike how many black americans have learned to tow the line for democrats and leftists, because its good for their health.

        • Wallace,

          Welcome to BFP.

          By this, do you mean ‘system dependency, thus, self preservation’?

          And by the ‘black Americans’, are you referring to why and how welfare was utilized by the deep-state to pacify? If that’s what I you mean, then, I see your point, and agree. I am just not sure what you mean by ”their health.’ There is nothing I can see that in any way benefits the health of those dependent on the system.

    • doublek,

      Many thanks for your encouraging words. You and all our activist members have done so much already to support and sustain this ‘home.’ We need to reach out and bring in new activists- with sure steps.

  8. doublek321 says:

    Side note to readers out there – I highly recommend checking out coverage of the Boston Marathon bombing by investigative journalist Russ Baker (of WhoWhatWhy.org and the must-read book “Family Of Secrets” about the Bush family. Note there’s an outstanding and very long interview w/ Dave Embry about the book on YouTube. Part 1 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2UuTNXUFp8&list=PLEAuWNLGNKvl9c9IcZgL9ucG_c5h7kCGG).

    • Castillonis says:

      Russ Baker’s book was amazing, but long and dense. If people can make it to about page 235 they might learn more about the Nixon affair. It seemed like it took me a very long time to finish it. I also like the reporting at their site.

  9. doublek321 says:

    As for topic 1, I think TPTB also know that people who face severe economic hardship don’t have the time/energy to look at deeper issues (e.g. role of government in people’s lives, etc). I think that is part of an agenda that is also being carried out in the USA w/ the impending economic collapse (check out the outstanding work of economist Peter Schiff if you want details. His podcast is at: SchiffRadio.com).
    Side notes: I don’t believe that Schiff thinks the impending financial collapse is planned. He generally gives the narrative that the economists in charge haven’t worked in the real world and only believe in what they’ve learned in their Ivy league schools. That combined with politicians who try to buy votes as well as push off the crisis to “the next guy” so as to not affect themselves from getting re-elected.

    Despite that, however, I believe Schiff has a lot of valuable information to share. I just think there’s more to it than what he believes (which is where I listen to Sibel and James Corbett to get that side of the story).

  10. steven hobbs says:

    Hi Sibel,
    Welcome back! I wish you a most speedy and full recovery.
    On your last two questions:
    Can we write it all off as ignorance? Or, is it willful and conscious ignorance and denial? Answer: From the philosophy of science perspective, human behavior is over determined. So no matter whatever your answer to “why” humans do things, it will never be adequate because there are always other factors not considered.
    1. Are some lacking in knowledge? – Clearly yes.
    2. Are some choosing to ignore, disregard, and be derisive of inconvenient information? – Clearly yes.
    3. I propose another possibility, some are so constitutionally incapable of digesting conflicting information that they can’t, but it’s not a conscious decision.

    Your next questions have us (intriguingly looking inwards) and may be even more interesting.
    1. Are philosophical and political discussions (conversations?) only for the full bellied and rich? Obviously not, but it helps to have subsistence, education, and time. To what extent is it our responsibility to reason in this project toward generative wisdom — and praxis? As much as we choose. Our responsibility is equal to our freedom, seems an apropos truism here. Still if we claim to be intellectuals there is responsibility that goes along with the moniker. Leave the fluff for dilatants.
    2. “Why does the majority want to believe the official story against all evidence to the contrary? Is it a simple case of ignorance is bliss, or is it more about conscious denial to artificially sustain a state of bliss?” As stated previously, a single answers are inadequate. We don’t know (right now) how many believe what. It seems numbers change frequently with polls. Accurate polling is challenging. I would like to know, if people had two guns to their head, one a “terrorist” the other “state police” how they would answer. That would be an interesting, if most unethical, poll. Another question, to what extent do people demur and silently assent because of fear of an imposition of expected, demanded action (by the questioner), one that would put the questioned in danger?
    As an aside, been reading “Stanley Milgram’s Obedience to Authority Experiments: Towards an Understanding of their Relevance in Explaining Aspects of the Nazi Holocaust” by NJC Russell. He makes a distinction between “situational” influence and “dispositional.” Each of these distinguishing features deserve further articulation because of both existential and individual issues.
    For all who’ve not yet seen, “Going Clear,” I do recommend. One, quote, near the end [something like] “We make prisons in our minds to protect us from uncomfortable information.” It is been shown that authoritarian personalities (as opposed to those open to change – let’s call them anarchists) are the most likely to react with un-contemplated and murderous contempt.
    Thank you

    • steven hobbs says:

      P.S. Thank you for the music. Please identify selections, I’ve been able to identify most. Who’s doing this this Tango?

      • 344thBrother says:

        steven you wrote: “1. Are some lacking in knowledge? – Clearly yes. AGREED
        2. Are some choosing to ignore, disregard, and be derisive of inconvenient information? – Clearly yes. AGREED
        3. I propose another possibility, some are so constitutionally incapable of digesting conflicting information that they can’t, but it’s not a conscious decision.” AND AGREED

        Orwell addressed all three of these. Proles. The inner party. and Crimestop/doublethink.
        p
        d

      • Steven,

        Glad you liked the music- Street Tango has been a passion of mine since 1998. Here is the info: ‘Pa’ Bailar’- Siempre Quiera Mas ((Julieta Venegas)

  11. Criticism is most potent when practiced internally and constructive attitudes are best in external efforts. But what we usually have is the revisal of that natural law I was obliged to mention.
    We should have noticed, I mean many, many generations ago, just about when the parliamentary systems were formed on this planet that establishing communication between the public officials and members of the society was overlooked. For all that time till today we must use the media proxies specializing in advertising, as the messengers. What one suppose to do [analyze] in such situation? The official narratives?
    Cheers

  12. The facts may be out there, but it is the *interpretation* that leads to our perception, is it not? I know the corrupt events (e.g. Iran Contra) but can I describe it in a soundbite? Not really.

    Regarding the third world poverty, in a sense a $ a day over there, a $100 a day here, is relative in the sense that there are rich doctors, attorneys, etc. who are struggling to make the first of the month to pay their mortgage.

    The point is that poverty has many of us “up against the wall”. With bills to pay, no one can spend too much time thinking about right and wrong.

    Some really great readings I have come across.

    “Anti-Humans” (http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/AntiHumans.pdf … via twitter.com/MisGrace)

    This explains the mind-boggling torture Romanian students underwent during communist occupation.

    “The Stolen Century” by Miles Mathis http://mileswmathis.com/papa.pdf via twitter.com/KalishJantzen.

    This latter piece cites how Hemingway was an intelligence agent and how marxism was used as propaganda to splinter republican (ie constitutional) movements.

    Lets remember that Gadaffi was going to start minting an african golden currency. Assad has resisted IMF controls.

    If we do not fix our money (along ancient traditions) using constitutional means, all else will be naught.

    • 344thBrother says:

      rahul re Hemmingway:
      They don’t call them “Authors” for nothing. Those who write about the most important things and receive support for their works are authorized.

      Nothing new under the sun.
      p
      d

    • Rahul,

      I am still educating myself on this topic (Federal Reserve, Fiat Currency, etc.)- it is an important/worthy topic. I still have a long way to go. For some reason when it comes to subjects involving econ/money/finances my brain goes into slow motion. But rest assured: I’m working on it;-)

      • Sibel: So glad you are back and getting better!
        Re: Fed.. Reserve–fiat money-and fractional reserves…a super short cut would be to google “Mandrake’s Mechanism” from G Edward Griffin’s The Creature from Jeckyl Island or get his book and read through about 250 pages or so. Again and again and again. It takes a while. I’ve talked to academic economist who have no clue about fiat $ and factional reserves. It is not easy to understand because the group that started the Fed. banked(a pun?) on Americans as a whole to never “get it” Once you see what fractional reserves actually are and how banks actually work, your mind will momentarily come to a halt–it’s probably the greatest con ever perpetuated on us!

      • Castillonis says:

        Sibel,
        A great pragmatic resource for learning about economics, finance and banking are the short videos from Sal at Khan Academy. All of the videos are aproximately 10 to 11 minutes long so that you can view them selectively as you have time. You can search for them through the khanacademy web site or youtube
        Current Economics at web site
        ttps://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/core-finance/current-economics
        Search youtube
        https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=khan+academy+current+economics

      • wallace gromit says:

        are you familiar with claire sterling at all? she was an author, wrote a number of great books which show where this economics stuff meets with the black market/intelligence world, which is far more familiar to you. thats how i got into economics, through crime and whatnot.

        i really recommend theives world which she wrote in the early 90s, should help put a lot of that together for you

  13. I’d say ancient traditions for ancient minds, future developments for future minds. Those who have gold can have money in gold (restricting life for anybody else). Those who have brains can have electronic money as the equivalent of work-value performed on the market. I guess, we haven’t try to think of the room for everyone. First step – drooping current thinking of thinking for others, second – dropping charging others for one’s debts. Private sector for private-minded people, public sector for public-minded people. Is the world too small?
    Cheers

  14. 344thBrother says:

    optura: I’d like to make an observation regarding precious metals.

    Back when I had an expendable income and made a very fortunate sale of my home, I had enough cash to purchase a significant amount of gold and silver. I then swapped it back and forth with friends and family. i just bought and sold at the going daily rate. What I found is that the currency thus generated got used repeatedly back and forth and still stayed within the family/friends. The exact opposite of fiat paper money.

    It gained and lost “value” based on the fluctuations in the US Dollar, but retained 100% of it’s value on every exchange… Real savings! Imagine that.
    p
    d

  15. Here is another angle to consider:

    How much of this is due to ‘State-ism’? What do I mean by that: The unquestioning faith and belief in state as the ultimate power and authority. It is similar to any unquestioning faith in religion:

    One person points finger at kids dying and suffering from cancer and asks the other: ‘What kind of just God would let this happen?’ And the other faithful person responds: ‘Have faith- God has his reasons and grand plans that you may not be able to see or understand. The real faith is an unquestioning faith- despite what you see and feel, you must trust …’

    In response to the US gov asserting State Secrets Privilege in my case, and classifying my birth place/birth date/schools attended/languages …, The infamous judge in my court case (Reggie Walton), as part of his decision to allow all that, wrote: ‘This level of secrecy and classification may seem outrageous and draconian … but who am I to disagree with the federal government on national security issues during our war against terror.’

    So if another branch of government (with supposed equal power) bows and accepts the state as the ultimate power and decision-maker, unquestioningly and obediently, what do we accept from those in the bottom who are ruled?

    Another example I have lived many times:

    When I ask people who have read and liked Classified Woman: ‘Would you like to know what kind of information and facts the gov fought and blocked in my case?’ Many respond this way: ‘Ah, actually, I rather not. Despite all the injustice, the gov may have had some good reasons to go that far in your case … There may be reasons that even you may not know … we don’t know everything the gov knows, and there is a good chance they had their good/valid reasons …’

    Do you see the similarities between the first example and the following two? That’s what I mean by unquestioning and unconditional faith in the state/government.

    Do you think this can be included as one of the major reasons for the public’s quick and unquestioning acceptance of all official narratives-official lies? I want to hear from you!

    • arealjeffersonian says:

      Sibel,
      I think you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head. Unquestioning faith in our government – the one supposedly “of the people, by the people, for the people”. Unquestioning faith that whatever the government does it is for “our” benefit. After all, we Americans have been programmed from birth to believe that our government is “good”, it is special among the governments of the world. It is just, it works tirelessly for “our” benefit. So whatever it does must be for a justifiable end – for “our” benefit.
      Hard to make a dent in that faith.

      ‘The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
      God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty…. And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance?’

      • arealjeffersonian says:

        Quote should be credited to TJ

      • Jeffersonian,

        Nice & appropriate TJ quote.

        Even those who dare to question (at least the majority of them), do so with self-imposed limitation. The criticism gives them a sense of being ‘free in a free country.’ I have heard so many people say:
        ‘But in undemocratic/police state countries people cannot write and talk criticizing their government- we do, and that’s what separates us… You, Sibel, would have been tortured and killed in Turkey had you done what you did here in the USA … Look, you are alive, not in jail … and that says we are a free country …’

        It is like this venting mechanism put in place for a false sense of freedom and empowerment. And boy, it works!

    • doublek321 says:

      It’s interesting because part of how I look at the word “faith” is “faith that something that goes against conventional wisdom and/or prevailing opinion might still actually be true”. It helps counter the “make the lie big and keep repeating it and eventually they’ll believe it” type tricks.

      I’ve also been thinking about “pride” and how it it prevents one from being open to opposing ideas. For example, the whole “proud to be an American” thing makes many people unwilling to hear criticism of America.

    • 344thBrother says:

      “Many respond this way: ‘Ah, actually, I rather not. Despite all the injustice, the gov may have had some good reasons to go that far in your case … There may be reasons that even you may not know … we don’t know everything the gov knows, and there is a good chance they had their good/valid reasons …’”

      Yeah, or they just politely sort of blank out, change the subject, move away slowly and distance themselves from you over time.

      I see it as a combination of trust and extortion. Trust, and don’t question because it’s easier than confronting the bully who’s threatening to destroy your life, jail you, hassle you, break your face, take your property, etc. . .

      “You can’t handle the truth” fits. And it’s certainly not limited to the unintelligent and uneducated masses. I’ve found to my astonishment that it runs deepest in the people who are within the system and have access to the information at a deep level. When you confront these people with hard evidence they get angry. There’s your cognitive dissonance.

      peace
      d

  16. I agree with covering the 2nd topic first. When you lay out all the lies, which is only the tip of the iceberg I know, it really makes the point of how pathetic we are. I don’t know who I am more angry with, the state or the sheep.

    • jdissed,

      Welcome to BFP forum- This is the first time I hear your voice here, and each new voice adds the needed fuel to press on.

      Deal: We’ll continue topic two for our next episode.

    • doublek321 says:

      For me it’s the state. The sheep are being brainwashed with a massive mind control experiment. We need to analyze how this is working (shows like Sibel’s, James Corbett and Russ Baker are very helpful with this type of thing) and then figure out where to go from there.

      I’ll say this, I do tend to try to bring topics up w/ people to try to get their mind stirring and, at some level, I think people are open to this stuff. I think for some people it’s just that they fear what you might say. I talked to one guy recently (who was trying to sell me something) and he was like “yeah everyone sees something very bad is on the horizon”. When I offered to go into more details he (literally) said “No. I don’t even want to know”. Basically I think there’s a contingent out there who hopes they can hide their head in the sand and it will somehow not affect them (or not that much). Some of that I believe is the whole “society hasn’t caved in and the US has been around for several hundred years. We’ll be fine”. Again, though, that goes back to my point about “faith”. If I didn’t strongly believe that we’re facing something ominous then I probably wouldn’t have the will to try to discuss this w/ people.

      • 344thBrother says:

        Right, mind control, I keep forgetting that one… (mind control? que Theremin music)

        Someone above, posted a good youtube video of James Corbett discussing the father of propaganda Edward Bernays. An excellent video on the MASS manipulation of the American psyche. And it just scratches the surface. I have ZERO DOUBT that once TPTB latched onto Bernays’ techniques, they spent billions of dollars and millions of man hours researching and refining those techniques. And continue to do so, AND continue to use them on us in every possible way. So add mind control to the list of reasons the “Sheeple” are so hard to convince.

        I have a friend, who SWEARS that subliminal programming doesn’t work. Why? Because he learned it in school.
        Point. Set. Match.
        p
        d

  17. jpcarson says:

    We need more analytical thinking regarding all the links in chain of causality to “official lies,” including all the enabling bystanders, so we can identify which links are most suscetible to our intervention.

    Unless and until more democracy – more Robert’s Rules – becomes the norm here, I cannot recommend others get engaged. We keep talking about something we don’t practice – collective, voluntary, association and action. So we become too much Sibel’s disciples and cheerleaders. Not a winning formula for the changes I understand Sibel to advocate.

    • steven hobbs says:

      jpcarson
      Unless and until more democracy – more Robert’s Rules – becomes the norm here, I cannot recommend others get engaged. We keep talking about something we don’t practice – collective, voluntary, association and action. So we become too much Sibel’s disciples and cheerleaders. Not a winning formula for the changes I understand Sibel to advocate.

      344thBrother
      @jp “I tend to discuss things with the other posters as frequently as I do Sibel herself and I learn from everyone… At this early point it seems to me that we are feeling our way toward consensus on some important issues…”

      Hi JP,
      Yes, let us give Sibel, our hostess, her honorable due, and not mythologize this gathering. Horizontal democracy with a knowledgeable, spunky, and distinguished MC will not look like Robert’s “democracy.” Seems to me, many here may (in uncomfortable moments), wish there were a map ready for this territory. Alas. Others who hold “rules” too high might not find their way.

      • No map indeed. No program either. Great adventures are like that.

        It’s only natural to want to know where we, us here, are headed, and how we’ll get there. How will we few trigger awareness/actions which eventually upset the apple cart?

        The tendency is to see the future as a linear projection of present circumstances. “If current trends continue…” But, they usually don’t continue in present form.

        We’re facing a future of incredibly disruptive technologies, some of which are still black. The future is probably, I would wager heavily, a wild ride through the carnival spookhouse from Hell.

        WE, and those we can wake up, will have the rare ability see coming events through discerning eyes, to instantly recognize the manipulative intent of events rather than succumbing to panicked herd behavior, and to swivel our heads in looking for the man behind the curtain while everyone else is transfixed by the spectacles of flame and colored smoke.

        As Kipling said, If you can keep your head when all about are losing theirs…

        For the moment, getting ourselves to that place of having our feet solidly planted on harsh reality is in itself an ambitious undertaking. At least it is for me, because these past weeks have just begun to open my eyes to how much I need to learn. Books I’ve obtained or downloaded, and books I intend to get, all of which were referenced in these Probable Cause comments over the weeks, will probably take me months to read and digest.

        My personal goal is to “get wise” sufficiently to face the coming spookhouse ride unflinchingly, and if I’m lucky and bold, discern the perfect moments to reach out and help rip down some of the illusory boogie-men. Fortune favors the Prepared Mind.

  18. 344thBrother says:

    @jp I couldn’t disagree more. I tend to agree with Sibel because she’s a deep thinker and an analyst with no peer that I’m aware of. I don’t feel any pressure that I must do so. I tend to discuss things with the other posters as frequently as I do Sibel herself and I learn from everyone.

    Anyway, speak for yourself. Or perhaps I missed your point? At this early point it seems to me that we are feeling our way toward consensus on some important issues. Do you think that we should just vote “democratically” and move on?

    p
    d

    • Dave,

      We had exactly the same situation with Mr. Carson back in 2004-2006 with NSWBC. There was this nonstop push by him for me to join forces with big sugar-daddy NGOs such as POGO/GAP/ACLU … you name it. I resisted back then, I resist today, and I will resist forever.

      What is this business of: “If you join and support them, they will donate to and back BFP”? Had I done things like that I’d be a rich NGO operator today, and I’d be one of those ‘regular expert’ analysts/guests on shows like NPR/DemNow/etc. No thank you. I will remain the irate minority.

      • 344thBrother says:

        @Sibel, which makes you accessible, beholden to no one but your own conscience and free to speak your mind without the pressure of contributors’ wanting you to filter or color your comments.

        I like it.

        p
        d

  19. otabenga says:

    Hello Sibel

    I’ve long pondered why some people simply don’t want to know just how corrupt and far from its stated ideals this country is. It matters to me because two who don’t are very dear to me: one of them is my son, the other a friend and intellectual soul mate.

    One of the discs from A&E for 9/11 Truth discusses cognitive dissonance – which as a psych major rings true to me. But until this event took place I had no idea how deep-seated these notions are. I suppose I naively felt that being presented with irrefutable facts would turn the tide…but it doesn’t.

    To my mind you don’t understand the use and abuse of power unless you recognize the deep state, SCAD – what Michael Parenti has called the gangster nature of the state. Holding your fingers in your ears and chanting no,no,no is not a healthy way to react to the genuine ugliness of 9/11. So, yes, take up #2 – perhaps you can come up with insight that has eluded me.

    • Otabenga,

      Maybe it is the expectation to see and find one ingredient- one cause? As in one easy sweeping answer, when there are so many ingredients and causes at work?

      This is why all our subtopics connect directly to our main topic. Systematic indoctrination under the guise of education= one ingredient; Systematic formulation of the Media & entertainment industry= one ingredient; false patriotism/nationalism/pride= one ingredient; the ever-expanding mind-altering pharmaceutical dependency= one ingredient … and the list goes on.

      The question is: let’s say we identify all the main ingredients, we identify the sources of all these ingredients, then what? Many of us say: well, then, we go about raising awareness, getting others to see all this ( aka we inform, and keep informing others). However, to do that, we have to cross a few major obstacles: how do we overcome the resistance to receive this information in the first place? And resistance happens to be one of the ingredients we’ve been coming back to with every episode: the circularity problem.

      Okay. Now, let’s look at the full-part of this glass: This is (on this episode) the first time I am seeing your screen name/hearing your thoughts. For me that says: one more of us, and that is ‘positive.’ Maybe this is how it starts. No?

  20. Absolutely no doubt about the willfulness of the ignorance. Many times I’ve had the conversation, without being strident or “nut jobby” about it, just a gentle friendly conversation pointing out one simple anomaly at a time, studiously avoiding any speculation, sticking to the documented — and have watched a friend get increasingly hysterical, very emotional, practically sticking their fingers in their ears and in one case literally just saying “Stop! Enough! I don’t want to hear any more!”

    I think the same basic principle is in effect at a lower level in everyday life among people who don’t ever have such conversations. They know the dispute is out there. They choose to laugh at it, they choose to mockingly use the “conspiracy theory” pejorative or otherwise just wave it all off. It’s not quite as simple as ignorance. There’s a willfulness to it. People are hooked on TV and mindless consumerism for a reason. It’s a choice. In so many ways, they’re running from the void, and yeah they know it, they sure as hell know it. It’s that little voice in the back of their heads, giving them their nightmares, feeding them their fear.

    I wouldn’t necessarily draw a line between the full-bellied philosophizing and the (action-oriented) fulfilling of responsibilities though, because full-bellied philosophizing has a place in moving the discourse towards where it has that ghost of a chance of reaching a tipping point and making a real difference. Let’s have everyone’s efforts, in all the ways they can.

  21. I don’t know how we can do more to change people’s minds or make them at least more receptive, other than keep trying — but not too hard. Nobody likes an overly aggressive salesman. Maybe with lots of little conversations and a few bigger things — hopefully Niels Harrit will win his defamation suit, hopefully the American Institute of Architects adopts the proposed resolution for a new investigation of WTC 7 — maybe eventually it just becomes much harder to ignore. Maybe we get the shock that allows people to consider the deep systematic roots of a whole hidden system at work. All I know is once you do see it, you can’t unsee it, so there’s no alternative for us but to keep doing our little things in our little ways, stay creative, stay secretly hopeful in our cynicism.

  22. Sibel;
    As much as I would like to get into topic 2, I’ll briefly touch on topic 1.
    Actually I mentioned in an earlier episode that I lived in south Philippines(1962-64) while in US peace corps. Upon return I suffered what is usually called “reverse culture shock”
    After living “off the grid'( no electricity) among a rural population and slowly adjusting to a unique culture, I took a trip north to the sprawling mass of Manila. There I ventured into areas of extreme poverty, crime and disease that created memories still seared in my brain. How to explain what I witnessed to those whom never experienced such things? Impossible. And I soon realized that most Americans cannot be blamed for their ignorance, per se. They know not about standing in front of a class of children wherein each and every child has internal parasites(worms), the initial stage of TB, and tropical ulcers which take a long time to heal.
    I slowly got over my reverse culture shock. But many memories still haunt me to this day. I could add much more–but enough for now.
    TOPIC 2
    It struck me that to do justice to this topic, I would have to write at least 15-20 pages–but that would be out of line with our evolved format/thread.
    First, I’d like to deconstruct/parse the term ‘cognitive dissonance”(I made a comment on this term in an earlier episode). Upon closer examination this term should looked upon as a dynamic.–I., e., treated as verb-like as opposed to a noun which is a state of being. Both are true, actually. More specifically we are talking about one’s brain perceiving something–it could be a sudden perception such as witnessing the planes crashing into towers 1 and 2 on 9/11. At that instant(from milliseconds to longer time) something unique is triggered in the brain.
    George Lakoff, cognitive neuroscientist tells us, “The deep narratives are fixed in the brain: the synapses of the neural circuits characterizing them have been so strengthened that the highly general, deep narratives are permanently parts of our brains.” Essentially this narrative is sub-conscious. Lakoff: ” You can’t find out how people’s brains work just by asking them.”
    If the act of perceiving sets up cognitive dissonance, it will produce a feeling of discord and tension. This is due to the fact that the perceiving goes against the inner belief /narrative. The brain automatically relieves this dissonance/discomfort and “falls’ back to “comfortable” beliefs/narratives, seeking consonance.
    This has nothing to do with “free will.” That is, one cannot willfully generate the dynamic of cognitive dissonance. It simply happens-often in less that a second. It requires a “field”, so to speak. An analogy would be sunlight–mist–one who perceives= rainbow.
    There is a very unsettling aspect to the above–namely, millions of Americans living in denial of a fact(s) because the fact is too disturbing. Millions are, therefore, partially spellbound.
    Psychopaths who are behind the scenes and belong to the deep state are seemingly aware of the above dynamic. These creatures with no conscious…” Who run our governments…intelligence agencies…order the assassinations of (foreign) presidents; carry out false flag operations, and murder their own citizens are not seen by most Americans. And when confronted with their venomous actions-9/11, the overthrow of Mosadegh and, later, Allende, “Ordinary people think, ‘There is no way my own government would do this. It is too brazen. Surely someone would talk, and they would be found out.” These quotes are from Harrison Koehli, 11-10-2006. And he further adds, “While you or I cannot conceive of telling such a big lie(s), psychopaths have no regard for the long term consequences of their actions. They don’t think, but what if I get caught? They simply tell another lie, and another, and another.
    Here is a blatant lie by Richard Perle:
    (the 2003 Iraq Invasion) ended quickly with few civilian casualties and with
    little damage to towns, or infrastructure. It ended without the Arab world
    rising up against us, as the war critics feared, without the quagmire they predicted,
    without the heavy house-to-house fighting they warned us to expect.
    This quote is from http://www.pathocracy.net…year of quote not cited.
    That’s a wrap for now.

    • CuChulainn says:

      thanks to the link to pathocracy, Ron, looks like they have gone into this question in depth
      this theme–that although the vast majority of people are decent, there is always a critical minority of psychopaths prepared to exploit the majority–recurs in the work of Orwell, Christopher Lasch, Jean-Claude Michéa–as the latter says, citing Stendhal, “il se trouvera toujours un Robert Macaire – ce personnage représente dans la littérature du XIXe siècle le prototype de l’arriviste sans scrupules – pour s’emparer du pouvoir et devenir président, ou secrétaire général, de l’association.”–there will always be a an unscrupulous arriviste, a Robert Macaire character, to appropriate power

    • steven hobbs says:

      Hi Ron,
      Thank you for your shocking reflections, poignant and maddening. Sure woke me up. I’d like to address some pertinent additions and comments.

      “George Lakoff, cognitive neuroscientist tells us, ‘the deep narratives are fixed in the brain: the synapses of the neural circuits characterizing them have been so strengthened that the highly general, deep narratives are permanently parts of our brains.’”

      Lakoff, and others, distinguish bicameral neuronal networks of genetic and organic preferences identified from fMRI: 1. authoritarian (amygdala); 2. anarchist (cingulate cortex), later otherwise identified in European parlance as “libertarian.”

      You continue Ron, “If the act of perceiving sets up cognitive dissonance, it will produce a feeling of discord and tension. This is due to the fact that the perceiving goes against the inner belief /narrative. The brain automatically relieves this dissonance/discomfort and “falls’ back to “comfortable” beliefs/narratives, seeking consonance…“ Agreed.

      This topic is lengthy, difficult to articulate, let alone summarize. We help each other with this project. Human perception prefers wholes, sans uncomfortable difference. In other words, I don’t notice differences, because inconvenient differences are frightening and dangerous. Situational factors influence choice. If predicting rapid social change, situational factors need consideration as do dispositional, particularly in analysis of swarm behavior. A good time for a “new idea” (generative of an autopoetic leap) is when grounds are laid by events capable of swaying the silent to lose fear.

      Ron, “This has nothing to do with “free will.”
      Presuming that cognitive dissonance is not a free will issue (because it is in some manner of speaking a “spellbound” consciousness incapable of cognizance of foreign narratives) how do authoritarians verses anarchists respond to discord and tensions? What coping mechanisms do they use?

      Ron, “This has nothing to do with “free will.” Presuming that cognitive dissonance is not a free will issue (because, in some manner of speaking, it’s “spellbound” consciousness incapable of cognizance of foreign narratives) how do authoritarians verses anarchists respond to intrinsic and extrinsic tension? Which of their choices do we label “free will”?

      Ron, “That is, one cannot willfully generate the dynamic of cognitive dissonance.” Actually yes, you can, however, it may invite hypnotic, shamanic, physiologic challenge and/or other avenues. The price of this journey is personal cost, the least of which is you don’t know what is on the other side.

      Millions are, therefore, partially spellbound.” I like this “spellbound.” I’m a poor speller. Something to riff on.

      • steven hobbs says:

        Operator error: needless repetition.

      • Steven: Thanks for your comments!
        I’d still like to touch on cognitive dissonance a little more and try to explain why it is crucial to understand. I’m afraid I’ll have to jump into a couple of neurological areas and dynamics(which anyone can google , BTW) Here’s a remark by Joseph Le Doux–author of “Synaptic Self. He is rather well known in the field of cognitive neuroscience and pays special attention to the AMYGDALA and the PRE FRONTAL CORTEX(PFC) which has 2 main parts ,” The amygdala forms UNCONSCIOUS, implicit memories”…which can trigger an unconscious Cognitive Dissonance experience anytime. The Dorso-lateral PFC is the key region for clear conscious awareness and “decision making”. But is has no direct access to unconscious memories stored in the amygdala, therefore the “I” cannot “will”/generate cognitive dissonance.
        Interestingly, I just came across an article on the web called TESTING COGNITIVE DISSONANCE THEORY: CONSUMERS’ ATTITUDES AND BEHAVIORS ABOUT NEUROMARKETING. using an fMRI scan they noticed” that when the “buy” regions of the brain go into action, they draw blood” to these regions “which shows up millisecond by millisecond on the fMRI scan(Witchalls, 2004).
        What I’m saying seems quite “off topic”. But my educated guess is that if NEUROMARKETING is finding PRE-CONSCIOUS neural dynamics, what in hell do you think the DEEP/POLICE/SURVEILANCE STATE is up too? Inane TV broadcasting could be pumping out subliminally all sorts of pre-conscious messages!! “FEAR” COULD BE RELEASED ON THE SCREEN FOR A COUPLE ON MILLISECONDS 24/7! This would add to the notion of being spellbound.
        To add to the situation above, people can indeed CONSCIUOSLY stay in denial and ignorance. This state of affairs is related to their apathy and refusal to find out anything about the Deep State.
        (All caps are mine)

        • Ron, if there’s something subliminal in the mass media it has to be more subtle than periodic fields of video which could easily be captured with a DVR. Believe it or not, there are people, and by now probably computer software as well, looking for that sort of thing. In my other life I was a video tech for 20 years.

          More likely, IMHO, that they are using symbology and NLP which speaks directly to the subconscious while slipping past conscious perception.

          • Knarf: Hell ya! I agree totally. They have so much fiat $ to spend on black technological ops, it’s ridiculous. My remark was in terms of cognitive dissonance which they can achieve among the masses using an old idea. But , apparently, even old ideas–TV, as such, with or without subliminal flashes still numbs the pre-frontal cortex.
            Nano-technology. flea- sized drones and robots, chem trails, on and on…I assume they have already cloned strange beings–half man and half horse. I assume the .0001% have spare body parts in hidden chambers, etc., etc. And I am not into conspiracy theories, per se. The fact that they have every type of scientist doing unspeakable things is a given for me. The whole damn thing is also accelerating–an upside down merry-go-round above the river Styx….As George Carlson said, “living in America you have a ring-side seat” to what is now becoming a phantasmagoric unfolding of madness.
            In one of your earlier comments you noted how “Fortune favors the prepared.” I agree, but the variables involved go towards infinity. But I hope all our commenters do, indeed PREPARE.

        • steven hobbs says:

          Hi Ron,
          Thanks. The detail of brain activity in cognitive dissonance is a vital concern in our dialogue.

          “The Dorso-lateral PFC is the key region for clear conscious awareness and “decision making”. But is has no direct access to unconscious memories stored in the amygdala, therefore the “I” cannot “will”/generate cognitive dissonance.” Agreed.
          The most one can do is willingly enter or generate a context challenging narratives stored in the amygdala. The outcome of such an experiment is somewhat unpredictable. Opening a conversation with someone unexposed (or will-fully ignorant) to powerful rational narratives divergent of official stories invites disruption of their sense of self (inadequately described as good citizen of an exceptional nation). Such an invitation, bringing with it discomfort (arising from dissonance), a threat of shunning, and danger of evoking violent, and is more likely to result in repulsion than attraction — making education more challenging. Maybe we together can find a narrative persuasive enough to promote such learning.

          “Inane TV broadcasting could be pumping out subliminally all sorts of pre-conscious messages!! “FEAR” COULD BE RELEASED ON THE SCREEN FOR A COUPLE ON MILLISECONDS 24/7! This would add to the notion of being spellbound.”

          Our media spectacle of has subtle, hidden and contextual messages of American exceptionalism, scientism, and righteousness, to say nothing of the blatant fear manipulation with, for example, threat level colors, it seems the state snow job is being accomplished quite well. No question, psychological operations continue with worthy research designed to expand upon thought control.

        • Yes Ron, boy does the gov’t work our brains. As we all know this goes back to their work with Edward Bernays and their study of Nazi propaganda techniques. This reminds me of a telling moment on live radio. A business owner was being interviewed about his business, which was using focus groups to identify ways of wording narratives so as to attain the desired response from people. He shared how this worked for OJ Simpson’s lawyers in his trial. They had worked on every phrase till focus group members felt doubt about OJ’s guilt and only then brought them to the trial. Then came the fateful moment, the interviewed asked a question without knowing the answer beforehand. He asked, “Wow, such a service must be valuable. I bet there are others who use your services. Who would be your biggest customer?” Without a moment’s hesitation he answered, “That’s easy! That would be the government.” They went directly to commercial and when they came back the guest was gone with no mention of him or the interview …………………

    • Ron,

      As always great analytical response.

      “…I slowly got over my reverse culture shock”- I experience that with every trip, and every return. I call it my ‘needed shock therapy’ which comes with certain level of perspective gain. The morning after returning from Vietnam in 2008 (after spending a year there), I went out for a walk, and stopped by this ‘Dog Park’ in my neighborhood. I listened to the conversation around me: people talking about things they do for their dogs (from special boutique diet supplements to canine-psychotherapy) … and talk about ‘reverse culture shock.’

      Psychopaths: I don’t have cable, don’t watch anything on TV except occasional DVD or Netflix downloads. Anyhow. I downloaded ‘House of Cards’ and watched all three seasons. I have to say: they did a great (highly realistic) job depicting this fact with their main characters. It reeked realism …

      • Yes Sibel, “reverse culture shock is not much fun!!
        I’ve watched “House of Cards”–great acting. But, the operating conceit of the drama is wrong.
        The show leaves the average viewer(whatever the hell that is) with a feeling that politicians run America! Not true! The DEEP NEO-FASCIST/POLICE STATE runs America, correct? Politicians are told what to say, when to say it and speak Orwellion talk! But, nevertheless I look forward to season 3 lol! 🙂
        And what is this nonsense about Benjamin not wanting to comment? There are no leaders here or alpha figures(except Sibel) or gurus. Let ‘er rip, man!! And is it just me? We need more WOMEN to comment! Sibel, see if you can slyly con one of those Stepford wives into typing something about dog psychotherapy–maybe we can draw her out.

        • OOPS, my bad!!I meant Matthew!! Probably another senior moment

        • steven hobbs says:

          Hi Ron & Sybil,

          Don’t watch TV.. much. BFP, and remarked reading takes precedence. However, HOC got me. Now, after all that, don’t know to continue, bury myself, or listen to Gotan Project. Maybe another side-bar threading our epistemology — psychopathy in high places.

  23. “Next, we talk about Official Narratives-Official Lies, and discuss the reasons behind the public’s acceptance of official narratives-official lies despite history, evidence and common sense: Can we write it all off as ignorance? Considering the known history of official narratives as massive official lies are we looking at willful and conscious ignorance and denial?”

    Welcome back Sibel – so glad to have you back with us. As always you have brought up very interesting topics to explore. This one tweaked me especially, because if we are talking about “willful and conscious ignorance and denial”, it begs the very important question of how the Powers That Be (PTB) go about convincing a large portion of the population of a country to willingly and consciously ignore and deny obvious lies, historical evidence, and common sense.

    In my humble opinion, you begin with WAR. Then you evoke war as the normal condition of the world. It has been said that war brings out the very worst and very best in humans – often at the same time. What better focus to enable those who seek to control “the hearts and minds” of the masses? They already control the money, the means of communications, and the war machinery. Life can become a “B” movie – where the “bad guys” attack the “good guys” and the noble Cavalry rides in to the rescue. People are bombarded with the notion of war always being close to their doorstep. We, the people, are in a perpetual mental, emotional, and physical state of war.

    Don’t think so? Since my birth in 1940, I have not seen a time when there was any other focus by the media. The US has been “defending” the world from all the bad doers in order to bring peace and prosperity to the world. I read somewhere that the US has been involved in 248 armed conflicts – after WWII. All these wars to end war – belie the notion that common sense still exists. I’m not saying this attack on common sense started in 1940. It’s been going on since long before – but to realize it, one would need to read history. Historical evidence is written by those who control the media, even changing earlier textbooks to reflect the views of the PTB.

    This is conditioning at the earliest ages of the population. To make sure we never forget WAR, the word is kept in front of those already dumbed down by their education system. Thus we have endless creation of war stories – in film and on the page. Then there are the anti-war movements which the PTB enjoy (since they maintain the focus that war is the norm). If you have to be “anti” something, that something is the normal condition.

    We had the Cold War, and now have the “WAR ON….”, you name it. The best one yet is the endless WAR ON TERROR. This took some minor adjustments to American thinking – and Iraq provided that. During WWII, occupying German forces were attacked by the loyal and noble “resistance”. Iraqi’s never had resistance fighters, because the US did not have an occupying force, right? The Iraqi’s had terrorists, hindering US forces who were there to help the country. (I believe the Nazi’s felt the same way in France). The PTB get to define what constitutes “terror”; basically anything that threatens them. This mind set was one of the instruments used to forge the American people into tools of the PTB. Perhaps we should call them The Blacksmiths. Blacksmiths were and are unique in that they can create their own tools from metal. The PTB create their human tools from lies. Like forged metal, once bent to the needs of the maker, human tools are difficult to change shape and form. You might say they are willfully and consciously ignorant, but they would deny such a thing. They’ve been effectively programmed to see the programmer’s truth. The bigger the lie, the easier to assume no official would dare tell such.

    After such a barrage of conditioning from life to death, it’s a wonder there are so many who still ask questions, who compare what’s happening currently with the past, who see the lies, and are not afraid to admit they’ve been lied to. There are those who still possess common sense, also a surprise. Dealing with a daily life of ever increasing entropy, while worrying about keeping a job, feeding a family, and attacks from all directions, doesn’t lend much time for reflection. Perhaps we should be celebrating those who rise above that in spite of it.

    I can see some of what’s happening and some of the why’s, but don’t have any simple answers for quick changes. These discussions have great merit in that they keep us thinking – and reaching out to each other. As we do this we form congruence and harmony within ourselves and with others we meet on our journey through life. In time we may even get to the place where the interconnectedness of all life will again be considered important. Thank you Sibel, for moving us in this direction.

    • Dennis,

      “you begin with WAR. Then you evoke war as the normal condition of the world.”- Excellent point: perpetual wars. In that respect US is very unique. I don’t know of any other nation with this forever-state-of-war. It has gotten into (and become engrained in) the psyche and state-of-mind, and even lingo. War in Drugs, War on Poverty, War on Obesity, War on …

      “…Perhaps we should be celebrating those who rise above that in spite of it.”- Agreed. I for one don’t take those for granted.

      • 344thBrother says:

        War war war on everything. Always failing, never stopping, always escalating. Yes, it has seeped into our psyche and we bathe in it if we interact with any mass media.

        Frankly, it’s disgusting and I say this while bathing in it via video’s. There’s your cognitive dissonance.
        p
        d

  24. Ronald Orovitz says:

    Part of my social milieu includes younger activists (generally of a more anarchist bent) who are very engaged in “raising awareness” alright, but awareness about what? Factory farming, black lives matter, date rape, prisoner rights, GLBT issues, etc. My friend prints up reams and reams of literature on these subjects, brings them to shows and splays it out on tables… I’ve wondered, what if I suggested adding a 9/11 pamphlet to the mix? I haven’t tried it, or asked, but got some indication of how it might go over when, in response to a facebook thread about a nationwide protest (today) against the mainstream media, many in this anarchist/activist crowd complained that some of the people in the group organizing the protest (which itself has more of a libertarian bent) have brought literature on 9/11 truth to other protests, and in doing so they discredit their (the anarchists) preferred issues. I -as somewhat of a bystander to this thread- had to point out that, as worthy as many of their issues may be, they really don’t hold a candle to bringing to light the event that has served as justification for endless wars, countless slaughtered innocents, civil liberties erosions, and so on. This response induced crickets… i.e. it was the thread killer. (I did recommend BFP as an alternative to mainstream media however so hopefully this helped the membership campaign?)

    What to make of this anecdotal case? I believe it says something relating to Sibel’s first point, about what those who have the luxury of dissent choose to do with that privilege. The insular nature of American society means the first things that people get worked up about will be those things that are close to home -I have a gay friend that was bullied, or a black friend that the police assaulted, and so those things matter in a more immediate way, so I’ll hit the streets over these issues. Whilst, thanks in large part of the dereliction of duty of the media, I have little to no awareness of what’s going on “over there” so how can I get worked up about what I don’t know about?

    Taking it back to the ’60s, perhaps my hypothetical friend was drafted and killed in Vietnam. That was “over there” but it was brought home in a more real way not just because the media of that time did cover it more, relative to today, but because the draft made the war an immediate concern to everyone hitting the age of 18. So they protested the war… But did they make any protest advocating getting to the bottom of that without which the Vietnam war, as a full-blown war, would likely never have happened? Meaning the JFK assassination.

    Likewise, even in our own time among those who do protest the endless wars and the civil liberties erosions, there is a reluctance to discuss to root cause of these issues, what was necessary to begin with (the terror spectacle) to rally the public behind what would ultimately be detrimental to the public…. (to be continued)

    • Ronald Orovitz says:

      There are certain kinds of protest that the system can tolerate, even encourage, in so far as protest functionally serves as a release valve (or “venting mechanism” as Sibel puts it), the system is in no way threatened by that challenge. You can be sure then that topics that do threaten the justificatory basis of the system as a war machine will be ridiculed and intimidated to the side-lines. You can protest predator drones for instance and the system might respond by issuing stricter protocols for strikes. The system is only slightly inconvenienced by this dissent, but the undeclared wars rage on unimpeded because the impetus of these wars remains sacrosanct. When you begin to expose the crimes perpetrated by those within the government, military-industrial complex, media and so forth that led to the initiating event that brought the necessary public support for the wars, then you run into trouble (as Sibel found out).

      What would happen if those involved in the JFK assassination were brought to justice? The system as we knew it would’ve have collapsed – upper echelons of the CIA, oil barons, etc. and perhaps even the successor president himself LBJ would’ve been tried, convicted and executed for treason. Likewise with 9/11. The ramifications of justice taking its natural course are simply unfathomable, most of all to those of the system in the media who, while not perhaps direct participants in these events, nevertheless become complicit in the cover-ups thereof because no matter how logically untenable the official narratives become, they consider the consequences and make the calculation that “for the good of the country” the myths must at all costs be maintained.

    • Ronald,

      Thank you for bringing up this important example. Same thing happened with our whistleblowers related events in 2004-2006. This was during the time when many of our members believed that we should join forces with ‘major NGOs’ to increase effectiveness. We were told so many times by organizations (ex: POGO, GAP, ACLU, etc.) that ‘mixing’ the issue of 9/11 would marginalize and discredit the cause/objectives. Because as we all know: They don’t want to be associated by the conspiracy theorists sporting tin-foil hats. Now, I have to also add the following: Whenever we had events and speaking sessions that included 9/11 topics we got ‘some’ of those questionable people blending in, and discrediting the 9/11 truth objectives with their behavior, the kinds of things they claimed (and the manner delivering those) … It got to a point where many 9/11 related gov whistleblowers got so disgusted and decided to go under ground.

      “The insular nature of American society means the first things that people get worked up about will be those things that are close to home …”- Another great point/fact. This whole notion of what they believe/perceive as ‘directly affecting me.’ For some reason, they perceive the macro causes as ‘abstract’ issues that don’t affect or involve them whatsoever. Your gave the perfect example for this: draft. A few years ago I read this research/analysis piece that compared: how many representatives in congress had their children/close family members in Vietnam War versus in Iraq War. If I remember correctly the number for Iraq War was less than 10 … Also, during that era, with draft, it affected the privileged/ruling class. Think about those coffeehouses in New England, Ivy League boys setting up protest camps … Today, who makes up our troops?

      “…Likewise, even in our own time among those who do protest the endless wars and the civil liberties erosions, there is a reluctance to discuss to root cause of these issues, what was necessary to begin with …”- This has been a repeating theme/thesis in many of my talks/writings. This whole notion of Chasing the ‘Symptoms’ vs. Chasing the ‘Root Causes.’ This is exactly why the deep state and the government don’t mind any protests, editorials, etc., that are on ‘symptoms’: As long as thou shall stay away from the ‘root causes.’ This is why their tentacles (medias, NGOs)block and censor any whistleblower or a journalist or an activist that dares threading the areas that go directly to the root causes.

      • Ronald Orovitz says:

        As far as I can tell, there doesn’t seem to be any big NGO money backing the activist scene I’m talking about (though Staples may be unwittingly supporting the publications!) -it is a “DIY community” type of thing. I recommended this site because basically BFP is DIY.

        Nevertheless, a combination of factors make 9/11 and other “conspiracy theories” a no-go for these people. They are, shall we say, intellectually intimidated by the either/or dichotomy of the official narrative vs. the “out there” types who want to talk about video fakery and such. The latter need not be actual disinfo agents in the employ of whoever, but simply the inevitable loopy types who become the attention-getters of the mainstream media when it does talk about “those crazy conspiracy theorists”. Meanwhile, more level headed people like yourself are cordoned off from the 9/11subject – when 60 Minutes did your story, it became about bureaucratic bumbling, and even the Vanity Fair piece, though more in depth, did not go into the full implications of your revelations in relation to 9/11.

        So then, when even these “radicals” who want to beat the system are confronted with this dichotomy as presented to them, they leap into the arms of “the man,” keep their activism acceptably focused on symptoms, while socially ostracizing those who question the narrative. And, indeed, it seems there have been “things said” about my comments in that particular thread – it has been intimated that I should tone it down…

        • Ronald,

          “The latter need not be actual disinfo agents in the employ of whoever, but simply the inevitable loopy types who become the attention-getters of the mainstream media …” – Exactly. They (media) purposefully focus on and provide coverage of those to make a point: ‘you see these weird nut cases? They are the ones who oppose official narratives whether it is 9/11 or vaccine or …’

          ’60-Minutes & VF’- Completely agree. Bureaucratic bumbling paired up with a petite damsel in distress.

          ‘Your comments’: Ronald, those were all well-deserved compliments. I truly admire people with your level of writing ability: so clear, articulate, eloquent … And I know others perceive it that way as well. It is one of the most impressive common characteristics among our community members here @ BFP. I invite all of you to check out the latest comments posted on YouTube under excellent videos prepared/produced by Corbett, and then, have you come back and look at the comments that are being posted here. That was the point being made: we want more of your comments!!!

          • Ronald Orovitz says:

            Thank you Sibel. BFP has been a favorite site for some time (previously posted under another moniker, ROro) – my internet time is somewhat purposely limited. The Face-borg is something I could do without, in any case, though it has monopolized its way into a necessity when it comes to local happenings. I will take a look at the Youtube channel.

  25. The radio plays a documentary revealing Tonkin as hoax, then goes on to play harmonica. No outraged editorial in the press. No cover on the next news round. The great Tonkin ‘Conspiracy theory’, now ‘licitly transformed from probability to certainty’ once fueled the street demonstration anger against the war and countless heated arguments later; now outed as TRUE,. means nothing. Is gone . into eternity a seed on stone. ground out and dead. Just another great shadowy lie exposed that means nothing to the ‘educated’ first world as it likely does to her in the fields of Vietnam.
    Tonkin. Sandyhook . Oklahoma city. JFK. The only difference is the immediate vicinity. she cites food-starvation. In Inner city Detroit, or back-block western La La, or suburbs of Sydney, its going to be poverty of mind by other means – sugar poisoned food, Bad education, complex inputs of media flash confusing every thought until there are none, and then, real poverty just the same. Hunger. Debt. Unemployment. Fear.
    First world starvation.
    The authority system keeping anyone from questioning anything by not answering any questions anyway.

    • remo,

      “The radio plays a documentary revealing Tonkin as hoax, then goes on to play harmonica.”- Beautifully-put.

      This has been a consistent pattern with the media- very consistent. Even when they present macro facts/revelations, it is done as sound bites: here you see it, here you don’t. See, this is one of the problems I have with many of commenters @ YouTube on issues covered by BFP and or Corbett Report. They are actually begging for, demanding, for issues to be covered very briefly and as sound bites: ‘You guys had this round table for 45 minutes. We hate that. Why don’t you give us less than 3 minutes long entertaining/funny/punchy video clips??!!!’ This is why I don’t care for the ‘quantity’ when it comes to our audience and participants, and I’d never consider entertaining that option. It is nauseating, but unfortunately it holds true for the majority.

  26. “The radio plays a documentary revealing Tonkin as hoax, then goes on to play harmonica”
    Nice, remo

    Once-dangerous information defanged by passage of decades and contemporary shallowness, quietly declassed and neutralized forever with hardly a ripple. If it happened before Joshua or Ashley had their first smartphone, it’s ancient history. There was a war with Vietnam? Was it before or after the Civil War? Only some history geek would know…besides, all those old dudes are long dead, who cares.

    JFK needs a bit more time for all of ‘us’ to die out or go brain-veggie, or lose our heads in some other manner. Within 20-30 years, JFK will probably be the next rounded pebble to slip quietly to the bottom of the pond and gently come to rest beside Tonkin. Killed by a ‘rogue’ faction in the CIA hooked up with Godfather-style mobsters with flashy white sidewall tires on their cars, everyone involved turned to dust, who cares.

    40 – 60 years down the road, 9/11 declassed as Saudi-funded with insider connections at the highest levels of US government. Everyone involved long dead dead, and no longer considered an atrocity, but instead officially viewed as a Wondrous Miracle of Allah, since in retrospect it was a major stepping stone leading to the Worldwide Caliphate totalitarian regime which all are subject to, without uttered complaint.

    Sandy Hook and OK City not part of madrasa curriculum, truly forgotten forever.

    If someone ever comes at me with an injection designed to restore my telomeres and give me a few hundred more years of ‘life’, I’ll strangle them so help me…

    • @remo & knarf

      You two make me realize I visit here first and foremost for the poetry. And people say poetry is dead, phufff.

      • Peter M,

        Couldn’t agree more. Ron and Ronald as well.

        I am still trying to persuade my husband (Matthew) to join in and add his voice. Right now he is dealing with his insecurities. The other day he pointed to several commenters and said: ‘Anything I say will pale in comparison. These activists are amazing writers!’ I am trying to get him understand: We need every voice, every view point, every style, and that every one of them counts. Give me a few more weeks, and you’ll see the name Matthew here;-)

        I am so humbled and overjoyed to have this community; proud of you all! I tell those who ask me to post a preview for each podcast episode: ‘No. Instead go to each episode and read the comments/discussions posted under each. That’s the core/important aspect of this podcast series; far more than what is being said by me in each episode.’ My objective was: interactive and organic program driven by participation, exchange of ideas, and furthering analyses by the community members. I have to say: We’ve done it!

      • One more thing: remo is an artist, and he can express so beautifully not only with his words but also with the art he creates.

  27. I think that the cause of denial depends on the issue at hand. For instance, many deny the obvious manipulation and engineering of the environment that goes on literally before their eyes, because to admit to it would be too terrifying (paradoxically, denying it only makes reality more terrifying).
    With events like 9/11, it may be the same, because again the underlying issue is that one’s own government is willing to slaughter us all like cattle. In the case of 9/11, though, denial comes with a sigh of relief (“they missed me!”), whereas the dumping of toxic chemicals and the inundation with deadly electromagnetic radiation are killing us all whether we hide our heads in the sand or not – thus making some people need to deny it even more vehemently.

    • “…because again the underlying issue is that one’s own government is willing to slaughter us all like cattle.”

      WE are the FIRST conquered peoples, whether by propaganda or force of arms. Once I understood that it all fell into place for me.

    • plt,

      Welcome to BFP activist community. Seeing a new name, hearing a new voice, made my Sunday:-) Hope to hear from you regularly.

  28. “I am still trying to persuade my husband (Matthew) to join in and add his voice. Right now he is dealing with his insecurities. The other day he pointed to several commenters and said: ‘Anything I say will pale in comparison.”
    Matthew, I think I said something very similar until you-know-who convinced me to submit my comment. Looking forward to yours. I’ve enjoyed your previous words of wisdom.

  29. Thank you. Sibel. At risk of spoiling the impression; and for sake of clarity – I need identify my art as remo. rogermorris.nz preempt gooooooooogle damning me. There are lots of us about. I hope thats ok.

    CIA know TIME passing is everything to destroying the point of certainty. The truth of 911, now – exposed NOW – would shatter the kingdoms of hell and the heavens would fall; but not in twenty years. Thats been said I know, But true to say again. JFK jnr said “Time is the enemy of Truth” and he would have known. Rove said ‘they’ will go on creating new realities while we go on to talk about the ‘old’ ones-that ’they’ also created [We’re an Empire now….”] So pavRove knows.
    Avoidance of the question dissolutes its power . Avoid the question. Don’t answer the email. Do not return the call. play it out. The Gatekeepers control the gates.
    With regard to that, I had a listen to this man [ http://www.sandyhookjustice.com/ ] relate his awakening to sandyhook as staged; his recognition of a pattern which bewildered and then propelled him into the very same vortex. His personal history – knowledge of behaviour in policing and school security gained over 30+ years of KNOWING how parents ACT with regard their dead children’s bodies – allowed him to KNOW the cat walked twice at sandyhook.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6roDPt1WYYY
    Sandyhook is not my particular interest except as to how it attaches to 911. Hebdo, Boston, Denver etal; the general strategy of tension pushing world view into the next paddock’. Mr Halbig probably does not realize 911 is false flag demolition. But his sense of outrage and impotence regarding SandyHook, the authority system reaction to his advocacy reads the same as we speak of here. And, like solitary tributaries flow toward the river, when they meet…..speaking of which, Richard Gage and Architects Engineers are about to put to a vote : WTC7 creatioNIST report flaws and fabrications with AIA in Conference in Atlanta. http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=d03bf3ffcac549c7dc7888ef5&id=ea294ce385&e=%5BUNIQID%5D

    • CuChulainn says:

      as far as official lies go, not all of them are directly traceable to “government” or the state, really the factotum of capital–a little surprising that the ongoing genocide in SE Ukraine, where so far as i can see Putin cooperates with NATO in the destruction of a beautiful, refractary working people, gets little attention here–i guess because the mass media hide the truth of the matter–but the presence of Benny Kolomoisky in the US, known war-criminal who funds nazi death squads flitting around the country attending basketball games, is i suppose as RB might put it a geopolitical datum of the first importance. https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2015/04/05/lets-hear-it-for-the-third-khazaria/ Igor Kolomoisky’s white glove treatment by the media, if he gets any coverage at all, is quite impressive… In the Ukrainian press, where he has substantial control over narrative, it’s understandable — but globally?

      • CuChu,

        “where so far as i can see Putin cooperates with NATO in the destruction of a beautiful, refractary working people, gets little attention here”- That includes the so-called alternative media as well. It amazes me to see even the ‘informed’ ones turning Putin into some ‘hero’ to root/cheer for. Another psychological symptom: The hero-worship need, and if you ain’t got one create and pretend it is there (Another good example: Snowden Case).

        • CuChulainn says:

          yes, Sibel, PC Roberts and others get hysterical about NATO brinksmanship with Moscow but, as niqnaq puts it, “the west can only do this because they know putin is precisely the opposite of what they accuse him of being.”
          i cannot agree with wallace gromit & the Saker (putin idolator) that anything bodes well in the Donbass–there is currently mass starvation, the nazi gangs keep food from reaching the region, zero media coverage of any kind. this is genocide, as surely as Palestine, Syria, Iraq, even Libya, in the great tradition of capitalist genocide, as Babeuf theorized the Vendée, from the enclosures in the UK and the Americas to the World Wars

          • CuChulainn says:

            the Sibel/Corbett video “who’s at the top of the pyramid,” as i recall, situates the Sept 11 attacks in this same tradition–the murder of several thousand people may not count as genocide, but the same logic applies–a small price to pay for the huge profits that ensued

    • 344thBrother says:

      remo:
      I like “rode-to-JER-USA-LEM. Clever.

      I need to take up some form of art again. I’ve got a love/hate relationship with my personal artisticness. It feels great when I do it, so I don’t do it. figure that out.

      anyway, keep up the good work.
      p
      d

  30. mike cristea says:

    The Germanwings plane crash site shows what a debris field looks like after a crash..
    Tons of physical stuff..Human body parts, plane parts, travelers belongings…including a cell phone that was recovered.
    On it was a video, recording of the last few minutes before the impact with the mountain..
    According to “experts” that analyzed other crash sites ..including 9/11 Pennsylvania UA Flight 93 there was nothing to be found at the crash site…the plane disintegrated..hocus pocus/bogus…there was nothing at the crash site..When I asked most of my friends about it…the majority of them refused to engage in a conversation that would make sense…for me at least…The more questions I asked the more resistance I faced..
    Thank you Siebel and all of you open minded individuals.

  31. 344thBrother says:

    Darn it, I posted a long thought and hit a button that killed it, so, short version.

    If you total up everyone who is funded or supported in some fashion by the Federal Government.
    Add in the military, police, fire, and emergency services.
    Add in the educators.
    Include anyone who is teetering on the brink of financial failure (No shortage of those).
    Include Welfare recipients of all kinds.
    Include the young who are really clueless and who were less than 10 years old when 911 happened.
    Include bureaucrats of all types and politicians.
    Add in single parents who are struggling to just keep their kids fed.
    Include everyone who is currently being “Educated”.
    Include the people who believe their televisions.
    Add in the people who are one pay check from homelessness.
    and anyone who I’ve forgotten to mention here…

    This is the wall we smash our heads into every day. This is the massive inertia of people that we struggle to push out of their dazed, frightened, self absorbed, medicated, exhausted haze.

    These are the sheeple, and we should probably give them a break, since they’re mostly just struggling to keep their lives together. I, for one, lost almost EVERY ONE of my professional contacts when 911 happened, because I was all over it on day one. (Boy that was a lonely feeling, and it lasted so long, I began to wonder if I’d gone insane). I can see why people would want to avoid that. It was, (and is) horrible. I’m sure lots of you have had similar experiences.

    And that’s why I’m thankful that you folks and the many others just keep smashing our heads into this wall of resistance hoping some day to puncture it and cause it to pop. I think when it does it will happen with a bang. Or, it won’t happen at all, but it won’t be for lack of trying.

    peace
    d

    • You brave person! For my part, I was convinced the gov was culpable on 9/11 (there was no way that could have happened against their wishes), but thought it was all too well-orchestrated to have been entirely an inside job. Guess I should have given them more credit. It was a Venezuelan friend who first showed me a video describing what had really happened. But I alienated a lot of people before that, just by refusing to believe that it hadn’t been willed by the US. Which should have been obvious to everyone!

      I remember that morning, though, a friend who was always going on about “educating” the masses (mostly about GMOs and food co-ops) called and sputtered at me, “We’re under attack!” When I saw what was happening and said, “No, it’s a hijacking,” she went ballistic. The human brain stem is a terrible thing. But I remember reading, too, that by its very nature television puts the mind into a readily hypnotizable state. And that is probably a huge part of the problem: when people get their information from the tube, they are literally incapable of thinking critically (at least, the segment of us who are hypnotizable).

      That said, I like to believe that everyone could be made to see reason, if only the spell were broken. And I think that point is coming soon, because the damage that is being done to our planet is becoming impossible to hide. Unfortunately, that probably means an exponential increase in false flags, war-waging, and crackdowns on dissent…
      Good analysis of that at geoengineeringwatch.org

    • 344thBrother says:

      @Sibel:
      This is the second version I posted and couldn’t locate later. Probably operator error.

      Looking forward to the next episode!
      p
      d

  32. 344thBrother says:

    WTG plt.

    The first casualty to 911 was my girlfriend at the time. When the towers exploded I was screaming at the TV… BUSH DID THIS!!! Meaning GHWB. I’ve learned a lot since then, but here’s this peaceful, basically hippy, school teacher who was anti war. She comes home from school and starts yelling NUKE AFGHANISTAN!!! Turn them into Glass!!! She just could not, would not, ever recognize that she was falling into an obvious trap. It ended our relationship, sadly, but oh well on that. No matter what I told her, no matter how much experience I’ve had with fires and explosions and emergencies, no matter WTC 7, she just went right along with all the “Flag sucking” (HS Thompson) and I suppose when her students went off to Afghanistan to fight and kill and die, they went with her blessing.

    Her entire commitment to peace and intelligence turned on a dime and has never turned back to my knowledge. That is the power of the TV and control of the message.

    Frightening really.
    Thanks for the comment
    p
    d

    • I could see how that might be a relationship ender.

      • Ah, I love subtle humor! Just read a transcript of Monty Python’s Dead Parrot routine – the perfect depiction of obstinate irrationality, what? That, and this comment, are the first things to make me smile in days. And let’s face it, it’s either laugh or cry…

    • “…and I suppose when her students went off to Afghanistan to fight and kill and die, they went with her blessing.”

      Dave, this made me think of the scene of the professor, with his HS students during WWI Germany, inciting his students with visions of glory for the Fatherland from “All’s Quiet on the Western Front.” My family were German immigrants and my grandfather took my dad to see that movie when he was a lad.

    • Dave,

      “That is the power of the TV and control of the message.” – Most definitely. The question: how do we go about countering that, challenging it, with the needed level of ‘power.’

      • 344thBrother says:

        hm… I replied to this twice and both times it didn’t take. I’ll try again later.

        peace
        d

        • Dave,

          I just checked the spam folder and ‘pending’ folder: they didn’t end up there.

          • 344thBrother says:

            I think the first was operator error, and the second was at 3 in the morning, so that might have been too.

            Bottom line was we need to stop being on the observing/defensive and take the offense.

            Judo move: Use their anti-terrorism laws against them. Find charges that we can make stick on the really bad guys and pursue them agressively.

            p
            d

          • Dave,

            One way to do this: become our own media. And do so effectively. Will we be able to do that with BFP? That’s the question. I have several solid candidate for exclusive investigative journalism work here @ BFP. I have other action plans/dreams: from mini documentaries (professionally executed to more reports like those prepared by Sorensen) … We must grow, expand, and get to that point. It is taking way too long, and that makes me (the impatient me) so frustrated.

          • steven hobbs says:

            Hey Brother,

            “Judo move: Use their anti-terrorism laws against them. Find charges that we can make stick on the really bad guys and pursue them aggressively.”

            I would support such an effort with great reservation, “Law is the tool of the powerful.” — Mumia Abu Jimal.
            No way is this injustice system ready for such efforts. The have been, and, will be fought on all fronts with very deep pockets. Nevertheless, another thought, “Unity of purpose, multiplicity of tactics.” Sibel’s suggestion, “One way to do this: become our own media.” Might prepare public consciousness for an eventual genuine investigation, and court proceeding.

          • Steven,

            Today I met this lady who had just finished reading my books (both of them). As someone who has never been political, she felt she was experiencing this new awakening. Anyhow, she asked me: ‘What I want to know is this: What can be done? What can ‘I’ do? Is there anything that ‘I’ can and able to do? Where is a good starting point, Sibel?’

            I told here: ‘Welcome to our world; our community. We’ve been discussing this in a semi-spiral circular manner for 16 episodes. This is exactly what we are trying to figure out. Many of us have been doing this individually, but now, we are doing it together-collectively…’

            Those in denial or willful ignorance (the majority) aside, when we have newcomers, one of the first question we get is exactly that: ‘What can be done? What can ‘I’ do? Is there anything that ‘I’ can do?’

            Hopefully, as we move further, as we proceed, we’ll be able to confidently offer ‘possible’ courses of action. With this particular lady; she is dedicated to locally sourced everything (food/etc.), she is anti mega pharma. Now she wants to move further, and she is looking for ‘do-able’ action items. It is important to start with ‘small’ and ‘sure’ steps rather than scaring off people with too big or too abstract options. Let’s understand and define what those can be; together.

          • 344thBrother says:

            I would contribute to a fund that would (say) pay off the school debt for some really good honest new lawyers to take it to the bad guys.

            p
            d

  33. While I am (obviously) pleased to find online communities where vital issues can be discussed, I don’t doubt the recent findings that the internet has further compartmentalized society, and assume that we are all preaching to the choir here. The importance of such a group would be to offer support, more than to accomplish anything in the real world. That said, such support is indispensable. It seems to me that any direction the discussion took would be fine.
    As an undergrad, I took enough philosophy courses, just for fun, to have nearly earned a 2nd degree in philosophy. So a good philosophical discussion is always welcomed by me! However, it seems to me that the world faces problems that are crystal clear, and that we are in no need of further debate about the nature of the people who are behind it all. I would love it if someone could convince me that I am wrong, but my firm belief is that we face imminent annihilation, and we don’t have the time for waxing philosophical. No matter one’s definition of evil, there is no doubt that evil abounds and is currently transcendant.
    There is much worrying of late, more about “when” than “if”, about a third world war. I would suggest that it is already being played out, with electronic weapons, with pollutants, and financially. It may all be for show (to bring about a unified world govt, e.g.) but it is killing us more quickly than slowly. Note the meteoric rise of respiratory ailments in the US (now #3 as cause of death).
    Being a pacifist at heart, my only suggestion would be to shut down the system by refusing to participate. Unfortunately, that would mean not paying taxes, which would mean going to jail, which would be a futile symbolic gesture unless everyone did it. Personally, my goal is to be able to live on little enough that my tax bill becomes null.
    There, that was a lot of hot air at one go.
    Cheers!

    • Oops! Ascendant, not transcendant. What a horrible gaff! Sort of an evil-induced Freudian slip…. 🙂

      • plt,
        Coincidentally enough, I’m just today returning to some limited function after being hammered by one of those upper respiratory ailments you mentioned. Gaaaah…

        Re not paying taxes, aside from the inconvenience of prosecution and seizure, there is also the issue of hypocrisy unless one completely drops out and goes hermit-in-a-shack. We drive on Federally-funded highways, some of us draw SS – SSI – Medicare, I take a high-tech drug to literally stay alive – which drug was developed partly with Federal subsidy, millions of people who may possibly agree with our viewpoints work in the military, or work for the military or some other branch of government either directly or indirectly through a contractor.

        If we define ourselves as those people who don’t pay taxes, we guarantee ourselves to be a tiny and marginalized group. At least until such time as comes about a mass tax revolt. But even then, though prosecution might no longer be a significant worry, the issue of hypocrisy would still be there for those of us who insist on intellectual honesty.

        • Get well soon, Knarf. I’m pretty much over that nasty bronchitis, but still feel somewhat weak.

        • A speedy recovery to both of you!
          Knarf, I agree about the hypocrisy issue, and after posting I realized I should have expelled a bit more hot air. First, I don’t in any way object to paying taxes for things that benefit our society (including things like AFDC, without which I wouldn’t have made it through childhood). And because corporations are the evil behind the government, my first line of defense is to not buy cheap plastic shit – or anything until I have reflected on whether or not I really need it. However, American tax payers are very much in a “taxation without representation” situation right now. Which, needless to say, is fundamentally wrong.
          I also want to make clear that I think we need to stay engaged. I doubf it is possible on the scale of the US, but ideally citizens would BE the government. Certainly if we had taken the ideal of govt by the people seriously all along, the world would be a very different place now.
          That said, I don’t own a car, and don’t even live in the US any more, but am still a citizen. And living in a hut in the mountains, completely off the grid, is my dream.

  34. steven hobbs says:

    As has been said here if a movement becomes a threat they will come after you. Some are saying “Green is the new Red.”

    On Democracy Now Tuesday, April 07, 2015 (approx. 38:00) is an interview is with Kip Andersen and Keegan Khun, the directors of “Cowspriacy: The Sustainability Secret.” Frist, there is trailer clip regarding the power of the big agriculture, judicial (Ag Gag), and other powerful interests that keep the story under wraps. The discussion is around how livestock production and agriculture are leading to species extinction, environmental degradation, and extreme water usage.

    The conversation is on the heels of Governor Moonbeam’s edict that Californians reduce their water consumption by 25%, while he says nothing of state wide 47% water consumption by meat and dairy producers. He wants us to take shorter showers. Imagine one ¼ burger is equivalent to taking a shower for 2 months straight. There’s mention of the ruthlessness of Big Ag and the refusal of large environmental organizations (Sierra Club, Greenpeace, etc.) to propagate, or support any exposure of the truth about the real causes of mass global environmental devastation. “Animal rights activists are the number one terrorist threat according to the FBI.” Well they’ve pushed 9/11 to the side for the moment so this social movement is in their cross-hairs.

    • Ronald Orovitz says:

      I have a longer reply to this.. It’s still in the compose window of another computer that I’ll try to get to tomorrow… But in the meantime, a prescient blast from the past:

    • Ronald Orovitz says:

      Steven, yes this is a big issue with the DIY activist crowd I mentioned above, most of whom are vegans.

      There’s no doubt that things cannot go on as is ad inifinitum. Livestock production and agriculture have been around for thousands of years, and the world has survived (though it is a blip on the evolutionary time scale) – what is different however is A. human population and B. the industrial practices that come with economies of scale that may reduce the ledger on the financial side but increase the ledger of costs externally incurred – i.e. for the greater society and environment. For instance, use of glyphosate helps the corporate bottom line, but for the hapless and unwitting consumer the costs in the form of gastrointestinal diseases, cancers, etc. and the accompanying medical bills are hardly “profitable”… Needless to say, Monsanto and friends won’t be compensating. As for the environmental costs, the trouble with economies of scale in agriculture is that the bigger they become, the more entrenched they are in place and hence less adaptable to nature’s fickleness; so they double-down on what little water resources are left in the hopes that a big pay-off deluge comes next year. In the indefinite meantime, the general public is asked to chip in by sacrificing their own water usage for the “greater good” of California’s industrial agriculture. Indeed, the central valley has become the broccoli-basket (and leafy greens, carrots, etc) of America, especially for organics… However, there is something perversely unnatural about California’s “organic” produce. It comes from land that is naturally desert, but was made fertile by large public works projects whose costs are externally incurred by the taxpayers. These were extraordinary feats of engineering, but as we are finding out now they can milk the resources for only so long.

      What is needed is more adaptable small-scale agriculture that is suited to its area. Last night I saw a DW report on the situation in California where one farmer complained that sure he could reduce his water usage if he farmed lima beans, but who wants a lima bean smoothy?.. Well, then, he needs to move to Florida. (Yes, the best smoothy I’ve ever had is the black sapote/cherry smoothy at “Robert Is Here” in Homestead, Fla!)

      In short, this old world can go on sustaining us (assuming that population growth will eventually level off globally as it already has in Europe, N. America, Japan and other parts) if we simply follow nature’s lead instead of myopic bottom-line economics.

  35. Andrei Tudor says:

    Welcome back Sibel. You can probably tell how sorely you’ve been missed by the explosion of comments since your return.

    Now, regarding your questions.

    To me, it seems obvious that this system of oppression and destruction can only be stopped from within. The octopus needs internal acquiescence, but it could care less about outside victims’ opinions. It then follows that discussion / philosophizing is necessary, as long as it is intended as a means of resistance. That being said, physical involvement with who who bear the brunt of the destruction that the system we’re part of perpetrates, should be our duty as well. One does not exclude the other. Helping people in poor countries is also a form of resistance, because it starves the octopus of resources which it would rather have fed back into itself – by purchasing further dumbing down tools and packages.

    Regarding the second question, I will add one observation derived from my own personal involvement with people I tried to discuss 9/11 with. The objection I’ve heard most frequently (and I admit I have struggled with this myself for a long time) relates to the practical impossibility of the government executing something of this magnitude and hiding its involvement in it. We believe we live in a free society, and we get confirmation of this fact in our day to day lives. There is no physical coercion on us, and we rightly extrapolate this to be valid for everyone, including those who work in the media and and in the government. Ergo, it would be impossible for a government conspiracy to remain hidden – people would talk. How to overcome this: in my humble opinion, we need to focus more on the nuts and bolts, on the actual mechanisms used for keeping the information under wraps. Books like Classified Woman, or Daniel Hopsicker’s Welcome to Terrorland, or Kevin Ryan’s Another 19 are invaluable in this respect. Once people see that information can be kept hidden even in a nominally free society (not entirely hidden, but confined to a very small minority, which is sufficient for all intents and purposes), and they overcome the “practical impossibility” hurdle, they become more receptive.

    • steven hobbs says:

      Hi Andrei,
      “ ..it would be impossible for a government conspiracy to remain hidden – people would talk. How to overcome this: in my humble opinion, we need to focus more on the nuts and bolts, on the actual mechanisms used for keeping the information under wraps.. Once people see that information can be kept hidden even in a nominally free society (not entirely hidden, but confined to a very small minority… and they overcome the “practical impossibility” hurdle, they become more receptive.”

      Great and focused points, Andrei. To summarize some previous dialogue on this topic.
      1. As you suggest, the information isn’t under wraps as much as sequestered to those curious enough to investigate.
      2. It seems: a) the 9/11 crime was likely accomplished by a cadre within the government, but not the whole government, b) foreign nationals were likely involved to help keep it covert.
      3. A number of murders (or suspicious suicides) of people close to the events of 9/11 occurred shortly afterwards.
      4. Intimidation, blackmail, judicial coercion, discrediting are easy tools for the state. [Google Kay Griggs]
      I hope others add to this list. There also more general factors, such as, the serious lack of historical perspective. Some other factors are: miseducation, poor critical thinking, missing imagination, loss of curiosity, and the seductive nature of the techno-graphic spectacle we are submitted to each day

    • Andrei,

      Thank you!

      “… to the practical impossibility of the government executing something of this magnitude and hiding its involvement in it.”- This is great, because I just finished recording our next episode which is on this same exact topic.

      • Sibel:
        I’ve been reading this powerful book POLITICAL PONEROLGY by Andrew Lobaceczewski, 20013. It is by far and away the deepest study of human PSYCHOPATHY I have ever come across. I gave it a cursory read a few months ago. Today I’m starting all over with notebook in hand. Lobaczewski originally wrote the book about a half a century ago–it was banned and burned. He had to rewrite it in Polish with a translator. I found his translated Polish to English writing a bit ponderous and repetitive, but the book also contains a powerful Editor’s Preface. Here are a couple of extremely disturbing quotes: “Psychopathy, as originally conceived by Clekley(1941), is not limited to engagement in illegal activities, but rather encompasses such personality traits as manipulation, insincerity, egocentricity and lack of guilt–characteristics clearly present in criminals, but also in spouses, parents, bosses, attorneys, politicians, and CEOs. to name a few.” The conclusion is that about 4-5% of humanity are psychopaths!–they may differ in degree-but the basic characteristics are the same. In fact in “a recent paper , it is suggested that psychopathy may exist in ordinary society in even greater numbers than anyone has thus far discovered.” Other characteristics: prone to anger, willing to exploit others, sensation-seeking, Machiavellian, vindictive, out for their own gain…”seeing themselves as highly worthy and important, but prescribe neither love nor status to others, seeing them as unworthy and insignificant.”..What to others would be a horror or disaster is to him(men psychopaths outnumber women psychopaths by 10 to 1) merely a fleeting inconvenience”.
        The above is in the Editor’s Preface. What I’m taking away from this book so far is the uncomfortable fact that one’s next door neighbor, the mailman, a bus driver could be a psychopath. The big thing is that psychopaths have no conscience. I have known much of the above from earlier studies, but this book takes the reader deep into the” Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes.” For me, my eye is on the neocons, but this book takes Psychopathy and the evil done by men in power to another level. I should mention that the term “evil” is used in a psychiatric sense–I., e., the evil that men do. It is not the “evil” that creeps around as green slime and penetrates humans–all run by lizard Satanists from the basement of some religious building as many whackos would have us believe.
        And I just had a thought. I wonder if your Matthew could glance through the book? I feel like I need all the help I could get and invite others to consider the same.

        • My usual typo stuff; the second spelling of his name is correct

        • Ron,

          The book is on my ‘to-read’ list.

          This psychopathy angle is definitely worth further exploration and a few episodes.

          Here is a semi-relevant article written by Rick Gee in 2002: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2002/02/rick-gee/government-lies-3/

          Certainly many politicians (those seeking seats of power) seem to share this psychological disorder. But there is a significant percentage present among us- the ruled class. See, for me, this is one of the reasons I put a break on the idea of ‘pure anarchy’ as well. This topic came up during one of our Round Table discussions. If we have a scale of 1-to-10 (10 being big/absolute Gov & 1 being pure anarchy), I’d fall in point/degree 3 or 4.

          Okay. Now I better get busy and edit/prepare/finalize our next episode.

          • steven hobbs says:

            Hi Sibel, “Pure anarchy,” posits an idealist definition, like “pure capitalism.” Dictionaries & wiktionaries narrow thought, and may enhance bigotry, mind control, etc. The “pure” meaning of “anarchy,” IMHO, is horizontal authority — not chaos, or disorder. Horizontal authority doesn’t require loss of organizational capacity. It implies a non-competitive, communalist, compassionate, and egalitarian decision making. Divergent solutions for organizing non-hierarchical gatherings are living anarchistic linages.
            “Authority” can be thought of in various ways, such as, knowledgeable or not, expanding or contracting, etc. “Big Gov,” connotes hierarchical authority, representational, oligarchic, royal, or mafia style.
            To consider, 1) “anarchy,” and then 2) “Big Gov” on a spectrum from 0 – 10, is like creating a spectrum from oranges to apples.

          • Steven,

            Interesting thought. I welcome your criticism. ‘Anarchism’ is viewed and interpreted in so many different ways by different people. I guess my comment was based on my interpretation that could be easily ‘false.’ Maybe this is due to the common ‘juvenile’ nature of many who represent themselves as ‘anarchists’ and the way they put forth their ideas. No different than many different point of views and interpretations of ‘Marxism.’ You put a bunch of people who claim to be ‘Marxists’ in one room, and watch how quickly they go for each others’ throats, each claiming to have the ‘correct definition and explanation’ of Marxism. Same with every single political view/philosophy.

            With all that said: I have to brush up on my political philosophies. Long ago, I decided to give up all ‘classic’ political categorization. Am I a pure Libertarian? I may agree with 70% of the philosophy, but Nope, I cannot define myself as a pure Libertarian. Am I a Liberal? Nope- despite having a few beliefs/values that go along with Liberal views. Am I a Conservative?- Nope, even though, some may view my personal life (ex: family values) as ultra conservative. So what do we make of people like me: ‘a mixture of many’ but a ‘follower of none’?

  36. This interview with the President of Eritrea speaks to a whole range of issues we have been discussing on this Probable Cause thread. Highly recommended:

  37. In terms of trauma .. neural pathways to the ‘impossible’…individual reactions of public to extreme 911 tragedy on the day. I need to run this short clip past the boiling frogs…

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