DisInfoWars with Tom Secker- The Disinfowar on Terror

Today I am joined by Pearse Redmond of PorkinsPolicyReview.com and one of the hosts of the BFP roundtable. We expand on the last two episodes, responding to some listeners comments, in particular explaining our views of the Oded Yinon plan for a 'greater Israel' and the persistent but false rumour that Shin Bet were secretly behind the Entebbe hijacking. Our discussion also explores how Israel is a magnet for people's attention and hostility not just in the Middle East but all across the world, and how this is likely a deliberate consequence of NATO's policy of creating and supporting the Israeli state.

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  1. contextofnocontext says:

    Fellas,
    Great work. Enjoyed the episode and your thoughts on the various elements involved in the broader (long-running) colonial/imperial project. To that end, very interested to hear your take on the European elements of Gladio during roughly the same time period that get a lot less attention. Specifically, thinking of the various “generations” of the RAF/Baader-Meinhof Gang as well as of the IRA.
    RW Fassbinder, who was friends with Andreas Baader, made a satirical film about the RAF called the Third Generation in which terrorists are led by the nose to carry out acts which benefit corporations and the state. The amount of infiltration and manipulation of the modern IRA seems even more opaque, but certainly connected to all of these issues you gentlemen are discussing, eg the PFLP, Gaddafi, Entebbe, etcetc.
    Thanks

  2. Well, you can find the same tactics all over the place – definitely in the Baader-Meinhof gang, definitely in the PFLP with people like Monzer al-Kassar, definitely in the Irish war on both the Republican and Loyalist sides. It is something I have been meaning to do an episode on for a long time, the Irish question.

    Demonstrating the tactics of infiltration, provocation, facilitation of radical (both violent and non-violent) movements and gangs is not especially difficult. The part that we’re missing is the evidence that all this links up – Ireland, Italy, Turkey, Palestine, Afghanistan, Libya. Is it part of the same overall strategy or is it different powers using the same tactics? Not an easy question to answer.

    • It is A very Hard question to answer.
      All those Little Wars…!
      Fought by Power- full Nations, true history.
      It makes my mind Dizzy.
      What about the Spanish civil war…!
      hmmm…
      This little ghost from the old days gone by. T. E. Lawrence..
      Pops up..!
      Whit a little note saying..Asymmetrical forces…
      Kind Regards
      Jens.

  3. Joseph Davis says:

    Once again, you guys really need to have Ryan Dawson on to discuss Israel’s role in 9/11. It wasn’t just dancing Israelis on 9/11 and truck bombs. Hell, Fox News reported that over 200 Israelis were arrested or detained on and around 9/11/2001. There were Israelis living next to the “hijackers” in Florida and Germany before the attacks. Have you watched Ry’s War By Deception? He’s updating it this year so it’d be great timing to get him on for one of these episodes please. And no, I don’t think Zionists run the world. I do agree with some of your points, but let’s not downplay Israel’s role in 9/11.

    • Hey Joseph

      I am sure that you have heard my podcast with Ryan from a while back. I must admit though my opinion of Israel’s involvement in 9/11 has evolved over the years. I am just not convinced that they played as integral a role in the operation as some have posited. You are right to point out that there were a lot of Israeli spies that were expelled from the U.S. But this could still be part of a distraction operation. The Deep-State know full well that the alt-media/conspiracy community loves to blame Israel, so why not use them? Also we are taking Fox News at their word which isn’t necessarily a good idea. So many of these stories blaming Israel for some event seem to be funneled through the MSM. Like I said in the podcast I do think Israel played a role in 9/11. This role may have been more involved than I believe but I still think it was designed to distract from the other people at play. For instance I mentioned the CNP and the psychotic Christian warriors. They don’t get nearly enough play in the alt-media. You have Eric Prince running around the Middle East claiming to be one of the Knights Templar and speaking at Knights of Malta meetings about how he is going to bring out about a Christian world order.

      I used to like a lot f the work that Ryan did, but lately I find all of his research leads back to Israel being behind everything. For me this is like blaming everything on Reptilians and the Illuminati. It shuts down a lot of the argument and other research. Well Israel was behind it all so we don’t need to do any further investigating. Ryan thinks that Israel was behind the JFK assassination. Even if we factor in their desire to keep their nukes a secret it just doesn’t hold up for me as a viable theory. All roads lead to Israel just doesn’t work for me anymore. Ryan has also been walking a pretty thin line between having alt-researchers on his show and for all intensive purposes anti-Semite/ white nationalists on. There is too much of that going on in this community and it reeks of an infiltration operation designed to derail and destroy the alt-community.

      All the same though thanks for the comment buddy. This is why BFP is head and shoulders above the rest of the alt-media. People come here for actual constructive arguments. And of course I wouldn’t be here commenting of it wasn’t for people like you who have been promoting my show from the wry beginning.

      • Joseph Davis says:

        I’ll definitely check out the podcast you did with Ry. But I do agree that Ryan provides very good info on Israel’s involvement in both 9/11 and the JFK assassination. I’ve even guest posted a lot of this info below, so we can let others decide for themselves if they’d like to check out the links. I do think it’s way more complicated than just laying the blame all on Zionists. To me it’s more an intelligence click operating for the “money masters” that work in concert with a faction within the Israeli government, if I can simplify as much as possible.

        – JFK | Why He Wasn’t Killed And Why He Was http://jdavismemphis.com/2014/11/02/youtube-censored-jfk-why-he-wasnt-killed-and-why-he-was-obama-israel/

        – 9/11 http://jdavismemphis.com/taboo/who-really-did-911/ (see War by Deception and the 4 part series from Faux News)

        – Michael Collins Piper on JFK | Michael and Ryan Dawson discuss who killed JFK plus the Milchan and (Alex) Jones-town whitewashings, Michael’s book Final Judgement, JFK disinfomation and the Israeli role in the JFK assassination. http://youtu.be/e-IWzHfpstg

      • Joseph Davis says:

        And Pearse, I want to clarify some things. Ryan is not blaming 9/11 and the JFK assassination solely on Israel. They were joint operations led by the US. And the Fox News report series I mentioned was never aired on TV after pressure from AIPAC (surprise!) and was only put on up on their site and then taken down later. It’s not a planted or fake story. It was collaborated by multiple sources. And it’s worth mentioning that the Oded Yinon plan clearly lays out the Iraq war for Israeli interests. It seems as though you’re more focused on attacking Ryan versus attacking the actual information. Have him on and clear the air regarding 9/11, JFK and Israel. He’s been a BFP contributor in the past.

        • You are totally right about the Fox News story being buried. I do believe that there were a lot of Israeli spies in America prior to 9/11, and that they were expelled from the country in the wake of the attacks. Were all of them involved in 9/11? I don’t think so. Israel spy’s on America in a variety of ways. I just don’t think that there were 100-200 Israeli spies involved in 9/11. That would dwarf all the other players involved. I still go back to the idea that much of the Israeli angle in 9/11 could be part of a psy-op or disinfo operation.

          Michael Collins Piper just seemed liked an anti-semite who masqueraded as an alternative researcher. I am just not comfortable with this growing trend of having far right Nazi sympathizers in the alt-media. There is a campaign to destroy the alt-media and much of it is coming from this sector. American Free Press is just another racist “alt” news site. I don’t see much else coming from them that is positive for this community. They mix in some people from the alt community in order to maintain the appearance of being different. And many of these people are obvious disinfo agents.

          • Joseph Davis says:

            You hit the head on the nail, “that would dwarf all of the other players involved.” Exactly. Israel was the main player, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a joint op with their neocon buddies. If it were any other country, I’d assume you may not have a problem seeing the light. Either y’all have a blind spot with Israel or are purposely downplaying here, I don’t know. I’ve always questioned why Sibel and BFP don’t bring a lot of this obvious information up. But this is enough for me to say my goodbyes. I’m canceling my subscription and moving on.

          • CuChulainn says:

            Joseph, sorry to see you go. Personally i have bracketed Porkins (like many here i guess, based on response to this podcast). I wouldn’t assume that Sibel supports his behavior.

          • Ronald Orovitz says:

            I must say I shared Joseph’s reservations about this podcast… And it only gets worse reading through the thread. Pearse I’m sure you weren’t aware of Michael Collins Piper’s recent passing when you said “Michael Collins Piper just seemed liked an anti-semite who masqueraded as an alternative researcher,” but yes this is currently on AFP: http://americanfreepress.net/?p=24918

            I happen to be reading his Final Judgement (on Mossad/Lansky involvement in JFK assassination), and while it voluminously cites factual sources in support of his thesis, which does implicate Israel and the “Kosher Nostra”, I’m not getting the impression of antisemitic baggage in reading him (I’m usually good detecting that sort of thing). It isn’t convincing me that Ben Gurion/Lansky were masterminds of the assassination (and I’m not sure that is the intent), but it makes a solid case that they like many of the others who had many beefs with JFK (oil boys, CIA, LBJ, etc.) piled on to this thing.

            As for Ryan Dawson, I’m not familiar with his work, but I have read Wayne Madsen’s The Star and the Sword – he has his own unique sources implicating Israel, the Saudis along with the American neocon suspects in 9/11. Incidentally, Wayne handed a copy of his book to Senator Bob Graham at the press conference last week where Rand Paul et al announced the Senate version of legislation to release the 28 pages. We’ll see if Graham can find the time to read it….

        • Joseph I really hope you reconsider leaving the BFP community. It was never my intetion to upset you or cause such a stir with this episode. I should have acted more professionally and I am sorry. I do think this is a place where we can disagree with one another so again, I hope you don’t leave.

    • IMHO if we want to put a label on who was behind 9/11, we can’t reduce it to “Zionists”, “US government”, etc. The only valid label I can think of is “globalists”.

      Globalism is composed of different “flavors”, who join efforts, or fight each other, depending on the situation. New flavors of globalism spawn here and there in history (e.g. Zeitgeist Movement), while some other disappear (e.g. Jesuits, Templars, etc.). Most of them have a ideologies and myths, like transhumanism with Gaia, imperialism and the concept of “civilization”, trostskism and the “international revolution”, free market, Human Rights, Common Wealth, etc. Some are based on religious beliefs, such as Nazism with their pagan references (swastika, Thule Society, etc.), Free Masonry with their exuberant bigot’s toolkit of rituals and symbolism, etc. And some religious flavors of globalism comes with a “savior”, usually portrayed as a King. The enforcement of this monarchist flavor is usually the perversion of an existing religion, e.g. the New Age movement with their savior Maitreya borrowed from Buddhism, Zionism with their savior Mashiah borrowed from Judaism (both Torah and Talmud forbids Zionism), and finally wahhabism and protestant neocons with their King Jesus who’s supposed to takeover the throne of Mashiah (considered as the Antichrist). That’s why they collaborate with Zionists in order to hast the takeover (100% logical, right!?).

      So Zionism is “just” one flavor tangled among other flavors. It obviously took part to 9/11 at a certain degree, but in order to identify it we must reorder the elements within Zionism. The state of Israel is not Zionism, it’s the current visible achievement of Zionism, which is the result of a long process that took place far away and long ago. When Tom talks about Lawrence of Arabia and first World War saying “How a very similar process of what is going on now was going on the later years and in the aftermath of the first world war which is obviously now a century ago […] that is obviously before Israel even existed as a nation as we’d recognize it today. So that was at that time considered Palestine.” it softens (that’s an euphemism) what Zionism was at that time, we makes us think that it was almost non-existent or just theoretical. But while Germany was willing to make peace deal in 1916, Zionists promised to France & England a victory without concession over Germany by dragging US into war, in exchange of the establishment of a Zionist colony in Palestine. Next year England handed the Balfour Declaration over Baron Rothschild. And World War two lead to the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. Oded Yinon plan is a very small and late piece of the Zionist agenda, and usually what emits from Israel less insignificant compared to what emits from where the core Zionists are (Beverlly Hills, NYC, Washington, London, Paris, etc. here is an interview I made of the French novelist Jacob Cohen about Zionism power in France, part 7 includes Tom’s work). Of course people often fantasize and overestimate Israel, Mossad, etc. In reality it’s a fragile country, because it’s a project that is still under construction by the Zionist flavor of globalism. The father is international Zionism, the surrogate mother mother is USA, the embryo is Israel, the future baby King is the Greater Israel.

      So, as Israel is weak, but Zionism is strong, I suppose that the Israeli participation in 9/11 was proportional to what its real abilities are in terms of logistics (lower than CIA and NATO, higher that the Saudis) but the Zionist power behind the scene was probably way more important. I don’t know if Zionism is the most powerful flavor of globalism, they are IMHO certainly in the top 5, probably in the top 3, but they are at least the most visible and noisy. Anyway, if they were indeed the the most powerful, we shouldn’t be afraid to say it. I feel that some people are a bit shy and uncomfortable on that topic, there is no reason.

      • Camille,

        As always, another excellent comment here with no shortage of great points. Nice one =]

      • candideschmyles says:

        My own thinking more or less mirrors yours in both its manifest conclusions and its caveats. The sum of my own reading leaves me with a firm supposition that Netenyahu does control a private elite team of special ops capability that did the physical wiring and placement of the explosives required to demolishf 1,2 and 7. They probably did the London and Madrid bombings too. And I am also pretty confident that Netenyahu has absolute loyalty to Kissinger who also controled Bush, Cheyney, Rumsfeld and dozens more in both the Republican and Democratic governments that have did as they were told. Of course Kissinger rose to power as a Rockefeller darling and owes all he is to his loyalties there. So its pretty clear where the buck stops.

        Great discussion Tom and Pearse and people here.

  4. Arnar Steinsson says:

    Thanks Tom and Pearse. Agree on this subject and I would like to thank you as well for the CIA and Hollywood series. I´m watching this movie called The Assignment that I haven´t watched in years wich does actually start of with painting a nice portrait of the CIA and not so nice of the Mossad at least in the beginning. Do you know if there was any CIA involvement in making it?

    • Thank you so much Arnar! Tom and I are very proud of of The CIA and Hollywood series. We should be doing some BFP Roundtables on this very subject in the near future, with some excellent guests. We will also be doing a follow up to episode 5 The Social Network with regards to the CIA’s network in Silicon Valley.

      I am not familiar with The Assignment so I’m not sure about CIA involvement. I will certainly look into it though. I will say that painting the Mossad as a nefarious organization versus the benevolent CIA is very common. For instance in a season of Homeland (CIA’s premier TV show) the Mossad is shown as conducting foreign operations and spying within America, totally with out the consent of the CIA. Obviously there is a lot of truth to this concept, but you will find Mossad portrayed in films as being bad or a rouge agency.

      • Arnar Steinsson says:

        Looking forward to that Pearse. This movie does have a reference to Entebbe. The CIA agent played by Donald Sutherland suggest the CIA do what the Mossad did in Entebbe in the OPEC incident. So it does tie into some of the discussion on Disinfowars as well.

  5. Fascist links to GLADIO are important in the overall discussion. Make-up of the original Gehlen network absorbed into western intelligence c/o Dulles at end of WWII, had to be fascist/right wing’ because Gehlens network could only have been fascist operating against soviets at that time; and would have continued to be so when deployed by NATO as stay-behind. Dulles wouldn’t’ve have time nor inclination for anything else. Besides, USAMO was stealing Nazi high-enders into US military intelligence and corporate ‘homeland’ big time anyway, so no moral dilemma there. US interests including Dulles/Brown Brothers/Wall Street, UBS/BUSH, standard oil, IBM, the Monarchs and oligarchs of Europe etc, had been full into dealing with Nazi Germany. After the war the enemy became, as it is now, Russia.
    Right wing fascist groups in Italy, France Denmark etc etc, later identified as GLADIO corroborate no division of interests between NATO and the violent extreme ‘right’.
    Certainly the ease NATO play with Fascistii in Ukraine right now -‘Nuland/Kagan as ‘US GLADIO political arm’ (good working title BTW) plus the ability to control an entire western narrative with regard US/NATO/ fascist alliance; argues for ‘fascism’ being absolutely part of NATO/GLADIO mentality, consequently; deep-state. It explains to me the ease GLADIO operatives had in ‘killing their own people’ at Bologna 1980 etc, and 911. ‘The big one’.

    While I agree not to ‘blame’ Israel FOR 911, they had plenty of dogs in that fight and we must stay alive to the reality of their part. Your warnings apply to all of the identified others. The 28 redacted pages can also be studied in that regard scapegoating Saud, for example, maybe OSAMA/ISI too with this latest Hearsh thing, Sowing confusion by Identifying players away from homeland DeepState conspirators. Broken wing stuff.
    For sure, 911 did not happen without CIA. FBI. NORAD. WhiteHouse etc DS control.
    Had 911 been an external command operation, not controlled from within USDS (inside job), the reaction to it by patriots within the superstate would have been immediate and absolutely different in scale and direction to that we have had to endure.

    • Great summary, remo, you got the gist of it. I’ll add one side-note/question: how many times PRIOR to 9/11-anthrax has the US military been “punked?” (stand down and ‘take it’). Once, that I can think of and that was the USS Liberty. Anyone else have a thought and/or better grasp of the history, I’m open.

      • Hi Pearse, thanks for responding. I think the difference is that Japan got WWll in response, that ended with the horrific atomic attack on Hiroshima & Nagasaki. In the same vein, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was phony and provocative and eventually led to America’s defeat, but not for lack of the US’s dealing serious pain and trying. In the end the Vietnamese were simply able to take more pain and run out the clock on the American people’s patience. By “punked” I mean times where a US Naval vessel or installation was attacked and the US did not retaliate. There may be other instances, but I’m not an historical scholar so I can’t say it’s the only instance with certainty.

      • Gary Binmore says:

        You’re only partly right about the USS Liberty, Pearse. That 8000 ton ship was hit with 5 torpedoes, 1000 lb bombs, napalm and countless rounds of cannon fire. The lifeboats were shot to pieces and the antennae were blown up (the ship regained communications when Petty Officer Terry Halbardier improvised an antenna under extreme fire). Yes, the ship was meant to disappear and take all the crew with it – if things went to plan, it would have been one of those great mysteries in which “conspiracy theorists” are mocked for believing in a cover up – “Isn’t it obvious the ship hit a freak wave?”

        Israel’s most likely motive: they feared the crew had detected Israeli troops massing in the Golan Heights in preparation for a land grab from Syria, or they feared the crew had detected Israeli troops slaughtering Egyptian POWs in the Sinai town of el Arish – a war crime subsequently reported in the mainstream press (to some extent).

        The U.S. monitored the entire attack by eavesdropping on the Israelis via an NSA aircraft flying above the ship – they heard the bewilderment of the Israeli pilots after they were ordered to sink a U.S. ship. When an admiral scrambled U.S. jets, McNamara intervened – “President Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few dead sailors.” The jets were recalled.

        Admiral McCain (father of you know who) gave the Court of Inquiry a week to do its job. All testimony about Israeli actions was blocked and the survivors were ordered to stay silent. When the captain was awarded a medal for bravery, the U.S consulted Israel first! It might not wag the dog, but it’s a pretty big tail.

        What happened regarding the Gulf of Tonkin is far more complicated – needless to say everyone of note in the Pentagon and White House wanted a war. After the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was passed, McGeorge Bundy, Johnson’s National Security Adviser, said the alleged attack and the response of the U.S. “should not be thought through too far” and that “he welcomed the recent events as justification for a resolution the Administration had wanted for some time”.

        • All good points Gary. I am not entirely convinced that this was because of the war crimes that Israel was committing. It’s not like the US ever cared about all the other war crimes Israel committed. And of course its not like anything came out in the wake of the USS Liberty attack. All good points though.

          I had forgotten that McCain’s father was involved in the cover up. Speaking of famous fathers involved in Naval operations: Jim Morrison’s father of course was the man responsible for helping to orchestrate the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

        • Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty, as some here have mentioned, is probably one of the most egregious examples of Israel’s ‘special’ relationship with its Western “allies”. What other country/entity would be able to get away with something like this? It’s unfathomable.

          At times I’ve stated that I don’t have a desire to travel to Israel, in part, because I feel that it’s one of the few places in the world where an American citizen could be killed by an ally with no repercussions whatsoever. Rachel Corrie is one example, but I don’t think the criteria for misbehaving (criticizing policies towards the Palestinians) would have to be as high as standing in front of a bulldozer trying to prevent a Palestinian family’s home from being demolished.

        • I don’t buy this ‘only Israel would get away with what they did to the USS Liberty’ – I’m pretty sure people get killed through friendly fire/misidentification all the time.

          Admittedly, the USS Liberty is a tough one to judge because what would you compare it to? It’s not like Britain once did this to the US and the US declared war, so what should have been the response? Something other than what it was, for sure, but what?

        • CuChulainn says:

          i really have been trying to stay out this discussion, since its premises are so repugnant, but this latest howler from Tom is over the top.
          “I don’t buy this ‘only Israel would get away with what they did to the USS Liberty’ – I’m pretty sure people get killed through friendly fire/misidentification all the time.”

          once again an outrageous statement followed by a tenuously qualified non-argument (“I am pretty sure…”)
          i know firsthand that not just the Navy officers and crew in question knew exactly what happened from June 8 1967, 48 years ago today, but that INR at State in the ’70s was fully aware that the Israelis were lying when they claimed friendly fire/misidentification.

          the now publicly available historical record shows that the claim of friendly fire/misidentification can only be understood as disinformation, and by repeating that claim here Tom is perpetrating disinformation himself

          • Right, the idea that the attack on the USS Liberty was some sort of mistake doesn’t hold up to even the most mild scrutiny. The only “mistake” the Israelis made was the fact that they didn’t kill everybody, which clearly seems to have been the goal.The icing on the cake is the fact that even with the testimonies of survivors from this event was very successfully kept out of sight from the public. I just don’t think any other ally of the United States would even contemplate an attack of this magnitude, let alone be given a complete pass. Israel’s relationship with the United States is truly in a sickening class of its own.

        • I only meant ‘friendly fire’ in the sense that allies shoot each other. I wasn’t suggesting the USS Liberty was an accident.

          But this is exactly the point – I am certain there are incidents of friendly fire in recent years in Iraq and Afghanistan where, for example, British troops were killed by American troops and the public excuse/apology did not stand up to scrutiny. Exactly the same as with the USS Liberty. But do people go apeshit over that? No.

          Like I say, I don’t buy this notion that the attack on the Liberty was some kind of massive exception that proves Israel has some relationship with the US unlike any other. Just like I don’t buy the ‘the Israelis were secretly behind Entebbe’ claim, which is cut and dried misinformation but which I see is being completely avoided…

          • Tom,

            I appreciate what you’ve pointed out about people going apeshit over things concerning Israel all the time, because I often feel this isn’t adequately addressed. However, once again, I think the attack on the USS Liberty is something, not necessarily unparallelled, but certainly an incredibly significant anomaly. At the very least, the extent it’s been sidelined historically.

            In terms of the friendly fire argument, the Liberty was an unarmed intelligence gathering vessel and survivors made it perfectly clear that it wasn’t some sort of one shot blunder. The reasons for this attack are debatable, but it seems to me, whether or not it was done intentionally by the Israelis isn’t. Israel had clear goals to maximize on Nasser’s foolish posturing during the six day war and they clearly wanted to give themselves as much time as possible to weaken the military capabilities of hostile neighboring countries and expand their territories. The USS Liberty, one might logically gather, could’ve presented an obstacle in terms of allowing them to float the “David and Goliath” myth, or for outside actors to take diplomatic actions to bring the conflict to a halt earlier than the Israelis would want.

            In making the argument that people go overboard (no pun intended) much of the time when it comes to Israel, understating an event like the attack on the USS Liberty is a potential step in the wrong direction (at least IMO), which not unreasonably, could have the unintentional effect of making those who might be unnecessarily overly critical of Israel’s perceived omnipotence sceptical about the premise of your argument. If I could gather what it is that some people here seem to be reacting to it would have to be somewhere along these lines. It’s not about placating people, it’s a matter of being able to to account for the basis of your dismissal with some sort of substance. This was not an insignificant event that can be loosely lumped together with other non-quantified examples.

        • Ronald Orovitz says:

          Wow, you guys are really stepping in it at just the wrong moment -Pearse slandering the recently deceased and Tom dismissing USS Liberty incident as nothing special on the anniversary thereof.

          I’m wracking my brain for something that compares to Israel’s attempted sinking of the USS Liberty and the best I can come up with – in terms of a questionable “friendly fire” incident – is the U.S. attack of Pakistani positions on the AfPak border in Nov. 2011. The body count on that one was 24, while the USS Liberty was 34 and would’ve been in the hundreds had the Israeli fighter jets and torpedoes succeeded.

          I also have intel – though it conflicts with other people’s intel – that TWA 800 was shot down by a Canadian missile, which in all likelihood was truly a case of friendly fire… (If not, then we should’ve invaded Canada on the spot and gotten this North America Union business over with then and there!) Other accounts however say it was an errant U.S. Navy missile.

        • How about when the US shot down Iranian Airlines flight 655? No investigation, clearly the ‘oops, thought it was a fighter jet’ cover story is nonsense, and unlike Israel with the Liberty the US never even apologised. A lot more people killed, and they were civilians and not soldiers, and they were just an airliner flying around, not a spy ship in a war zone.

          I appreciate that the attack on the Liberty is a sore spot for a lot of Americans, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with the conclusion that this sort of thing has never happened to anyone else, that this is somehow an outstanding and definitive moment in human history.

        • BennyB,

          Admittedly, the US is not particularly accustomed to being treated in this way. But pretty much every other country is. It was only 70 years ago that Germany was trying to invade this country, destroy our capital city and subjugate our population. Now we’re trading partners. Shock horror!

          I’m just saying, get real. The only reason why this is anomalous is because no one attacks the US. That is ‘American exceptionalism’ – the expectation of never being attacked. But no one else in the world thinks like this. Everyone else in the world has much keener, closer sense of what it is like for unarmed, innocent people of your country to be killed by another, even someone who is considered an ally. It really isn’t that uncommon, at all, if you are from any other country than the US.

          Meanwhile, the possibility everyone is overlooking is that the Israelis had permission to do this, possibly as part of a backroom deal to give the US an excuse to get involved in the Middle East war zone. After all, the Israelis used unmarked aircraft to attack the ship, suggesting that they did not intend to be identified as the perpetrators. Perhaps the operation went bad, they failed to sink the ship, and somehow those on board managed to get a rescue message out, scuppering the whole plan.

          I am not saying that this is necessarily what happened – I don’t know what happened – but this emotive rush to judgment and claim that this is a unique or almost unique event that proves Israel has some sort of special status is, to my mind, neither born out by the facts nor particularly sensible. However, it is a quite common belief, I recognise that.

          • Tom,

            My comment isn’t a matter of looking at the USS Liberty incident as a historically unique travesty in and of itself. What’s unique in my mind is the way the incident was handled by the United States. One of my initial comments the other day was that part of my lack of desire to travel to Israel doesn’t stem from the idea that I couldn’t be harmed as an American traveling to another country who’s an ally of the United States, it’s more the sense that the kind of relationship Israel has with the US means that it’s probably one of the places which would have the least amount of concern for any sort of backlash, publicly or diplomatically, if for some reason my behavior was decided to be worthy of “punishment”, even death.

            In some ways I think this gets to the heart of one of the things that’s most resented about Israel. The Zionist pro-Israel lobby commands a level of control over the narrative, primarily through control of the media propaganda, to an extent which is beyond unnerving. It’s quite unfortunate that Israel has effectively formed the basis to confirm many of the pre-existing stereotypes about Jews in ways that the best propaganda prior to the end of World War II could ever have dreamed of. This lobby does use its financial clout and control over the media to promote what, at face value, appears to be a “Jewish Agenda”. Sadly, this “Agenda” only serves “Jews” as far as the United States’ wars (financial and economic) serves “Americans”. Same thing though among many Jews, of course, particularly Israelis: there are enough Americans who are sucked into the propaganda enough to believe that “they just hate us for our freedoms” – ( “they’re just criticising Israel because they’re anti-Semites” ), “our wars are necessary to protect our way of life” – ( “a Jewish State is necessary to protect ourselves from persecution” ), etc.

            @Tom, back to what you said though:
            I think your suggestion that there’s a likelihood that the attack on the USS Liberty was known of by key figures in the US beforehand is actually a pretty sharp consideration. This plays into a sub-conversation I commented on prior to this, which generally suggests that the way that Israel is referred to as somehow being its own “entity” is both disingenuous and misleading (probably intentional so in many ways). It just goes to show the sort of blind spot which exists even among those of us who have evolved beyond an irrational and reactionary view of Israel’s role in the empire.

            I stand by my statement regarding what specifically is unique about the relationship with Israel in regards to the attack on the USS Liberty, but I appreciate your observation (which I just mentioned) as part of more critical analysis on what it is that’s “unique” about Israel, both in realistic terms and in terms of the way the sort of “persona” Israel takes on, particularly among conspiracy theorists, is more of an emotional conflation than a rational deduction.

        • Hi Tom
          I don’t think anyone here is making the argument — I’m certainly not — that the attack on the Liberty is an outrage against America in some absolutist moral sense. American war crimes and imperialism are well documented. The point is the power of the Israeli/Zionist/Jewish block within American politics. If I was able to walk into a British football club, kick your star goalie in the rockers, and walk back out past his teammates unmolested, one might conclude that I had a lot of personal power within that context: an ally with special privileges, if you will.

          “Jewish power is the capacity to keep from talking about Jewish power.” — Gilad Atzmon

          Whether Israel thought up the attack on their own or were ‘green lighted’ in some joint op by top US officials is almost immaterial. Very few want to talk about this because, via propaganda, it has been made extremely uncomfortable to talk about, yet it is a big, fat pink elephant sitting in the living room.

          May I add that I very much enjoy yours and Pearse’s programs and participation and was disheartened to see Joseph apparently make an exit. The twist in the gut that this subject causes should be understood as a learning opportunity for all.

        • Ronald Orovitz says:

          Tom: “How about when the US shot down Iranian Airlines flight 655?” Yeah – forgot about that one. But I certainly wasn’t suggesting that the U.S. is exceptional… There is an axis of evil in the world today, and regrettably its core is the unholy trinity of US/UK/Israel… We are all in this infamy together. What the Liberty along with (to some degree) 9/11 and JFK assassination show however is that there is no honor even among thieves.

        • BennyB, I quoted Atzmon because I don’t consciously plagiarize and wanted to give attribution. My point was the same as Atmon’s, and that is the corrosive nature of ‘identity politics’ generally, and Jewish identity politics in this particular case. Double standards abound. If one disagrees they’re dismissed and labeled an “anti-semite” or a “self hating Jew” or “obsessed.” It’s been a winning equation, though it’s linguistic trickery that avoids real debate.

          • Peter,

            I wasn’t posting the link to chastise you. There are some points that Atzmon’s made which have made sense to me, but there were other things that made me question where he was coming from. I did a search and found that information helpful in making an assessment whether what I was wary of had a rational basis. Electronic Intifada, in my opinion, are very astute about differentiating between criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism, so I value their take on Atzmon. I feel that information is relevant and useful so I’m passing it on.

      • Gary,

        You’re right. It’s almost as though it’s only a fluke when some sort of sacrifice, such as those you described, actually gets the light shone on it.

  6. I really appreciated this podcast. Particularly the angle dealing with the assessment of Israel as being this all seeing omnipotent component behind everything regarding 9/11 and foreign policy as a whole. Israel’s role in the deep state can’t be understated, but I’ve long noticed a trend in many places within the alt-media, particularly those who deal with conspiracy theories, to obsess over it’s role in everything in a way which is peculiar and often irrational.

    The “dancing Israelis” for example is probably within the top five of the most “important” (or at least most frequently mentioned) aspects of 9/11 that I’ve heard referenced over the years. I’m not refuting the existence of this event or even saying it’s not important. But I’m sorry, there’s just something a bid odd about the fact that in the grand scheme of things, this has taken on the importance it has. It’s a bit like going to a fast food restaurant, finding rat feces in your sandwich, then mentioning how watered down the soda was every time you tell the story.

    I got a kick out of Pears’ comment that the Shin Bet are too busy harassing Palestinians and enforcing atrocious racist policies to take on the role prescribed in some theories. Beyond that, I’ve particularly enjoyed Pears’ contributions here recently at BFP and I’ll say again: the CIA in Hollywood series with Tom has to be some of the most outstanding, entertaining, and informative work I’ve listened to lately. I’m not sure what members are finding quite so objectionable, maybe the critique of Ryan Dawson (amongst other things?), but I’m just restating my appreciation.

    Regarding Ryan Dawson, I respect him appreciate much of the work he’s done, particularly his conversations with James Corbett, but I feel a similar reservation about the ‘all roads lead to Israel’ direction much of what I’ve recently observed has taken on. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think people should somehow go soft on criticism of Israel (I’m not a fan). It’s knee deep in the deep state policies and, beyond that activities in its own backyard, which earn it a rightful reputation as a pariah state that, at least on the plus side, seems to be losing the battle in its claims to legitimacy. Still, I think people ascribe more power to Israel than it actually has and I think Israelis are naive in the notion that their position on the world stage is “unshakable”.

    I won’t go into it in detail here, but I think the focus on Israel and the provocative actions it takes to heighten the animosity people are already inclined to feel towards it for legitimate reasons plays into the hands of those who want to shield criticism under the pretense of “anti-Semitism”, where in most cases this doesn’t have anything to do with it. I also think there’s a certain Saudi Arabia esque element, where the sorts of flagrantly provocative actions Israel takes on all levels is a sort of bargaining chip for use later if need be. As powerful a force in the region Israel is, without support from its “allies” it wouldn’t last a week. I’ll leave it there for now though.

    Actually…
    One last thing: Pears, what’s the deal with the Porkin’s Policy Review moniker? It sounds like a CFR type group for Looney Tunes members =p

    • woops… I think it’s Porkins… but “that’s all folks!!!” 😀

    • Gary Binmore says:

      BennyB,
      Bizarre sideshows like the dancing Israelis, Harley man etc were most likely deliberate distractions intended to deflect attention from incidents that absolutely kill the official nonsense, like the collapse of Building 7 and the pattern of debris from the alleged crash of Flight 93. If the public had kept its focus on the facts instead of the distractions and various pet theories (Jews, holograms etc) the official line would be utterly discredited and only believed by idiots.
      This is where the alt media has absolutely failed – by taking seriously any crackpot theory instead of presenting the relevant facts and expounding what they mean. There’s more than enough information out there to destroy the “Zellikow Interpretation”, but most of the alt media preferred to concentrate on other stuff. Partly a result of deliberate disinfo, but more so of the “all views are equal” creed of the alt media. Cultural relativism strikes again.

      • Gary,

        I think you’re absolutely right that many corners of the alt-media failed in allowing these sorts of divisive, often ridiculous sideshows take on an absurd level of “importance”. I don’t think the “dancing Israelis” bit is absurd, but in the grand scheme of things… I think some of this was perpetuated and fanned specifically as disinfo, but I think a secondary aspect was that, after being marginalized and ignored on the most basic elements, like controlled demolition and the substanceless dirt mound and miscellaneous trash debris we’re supposed to believe was flight 93, many within the truth movement just devolved into a masterbatory oneupmanship on details that those on the outer fringe of conspiracy theorists couldn’t even agree on.

        I obviously don’t think there’s anything within the mainstream media worth emulating. However, the lack of professionalism and the assumption that “nobody gets it” certainly becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If we want to be taken seriously, the supermarket line conspiracy theories need to be challenged by those of us who recognize how problematic the reptilian facelift cheating scandal variety is. I’ve said it a bunch lately, but I’ll say it again: nobody has a monopoly on the truth, but being open minded shouldn’t mean giving equal time to everything. Especially when we haven’t even adequately cooked the meat and potatoes.

        • Ronald Orovitz says:

          There is something about the subject of Israel that one just has to tip-toe around… If you are too critical, you might be a closeted anti-Semite, if not critical enough, you’re a shill.

          But yes, to the larger point you make about disinfo, especially as relates to Israel, one needs to have the BS detecting radars perked… A case in point would be the recent allegations about the Saudis bombing Yemen with an Israeli supplied nuke, all based on the video analysis of a rather nebulous ‘former IAEA inspector’ and contributor to Veterans Today. The explosion seen on the video however, while yielding an enormous mushroom cloud, does not share other characteristics typical of nuclear detonations, particularly the instantaneous blinding flash and the atmospheric shock wave. Moreover, the appearance of a smaller explosion before the larger one suggests that a large ammo depot was hit. But go ahead and google (or better yet startpage) “Israel nukes Yemen” and you’ll probably have hundreds if not thousands of results…

          Which brings me to a point made by BFP contributor Joe Lauria who was on a panel last week at the Wayne Madsen Report 10th anniversary conference at the National Press Club, which I attended. The subject of the panel was the supplanting of the mainstream media by the alternative media. Lauria made the point that there are upsides to this as well as downsides – the main downside is that there is just too much sloppiness among independent bloggers – the ease with which bad info propagates across the Internet is a big problem. I would add this distinction – some of it is unwitting misinfo (false info due to sloppiness) and some of it is witting disinfo (deliberately false info), but perhaps most of it is unwitting disinfo (sloppily propagated disinfo). I would wager that the Veterans Today story on the Israeli nuke is witting disinfo, particularly as editor Gordon Duff has admitted he deliberately publishes false stories – presumably as a “life insurance” policy….

          (Incidentally, I had a conversation with Lauria and another BFP contributor Andrew Kreig on the subject of the alleged nuke video and he shared the same skeptical analysis.)

          In a nutshell – you basically have to think like a spook in navigating the Wild West of independent media… The problem however is that Joe-Q-Public doesn’t have the patience for such analysis and hence just shrugs it all off as “conspiracy theory”….

          • The extent that there’s a tendency to obsess over Israel gets annoying. But in all fairness, it’s certainly not without ample provocation. On top of that, being falsely accused of anything is infuriating.

            One of the problems I have with the ‘all roads lead to Israel’ rhetoric is that it only helps perpetuate the false premise that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic in nature. For the most part this is complete BS, so why give the Zionist pro-Israel lobby the grounds to rationalize their witch hunts on the basis of some of these chicken sh.t conspiracy theories when there are no shortage of legitimate issues to take Israel to task on?

            With regards to Veterans Today: maybe there are some decent contributors, but from what little I’ve seen, they seem like a disinfo-hub, which blur the lines between fact and fiction like a drunk with graph paper. This type of stuff does a disservice to veterans and, to use Sibel’s phrasing; ‘makes the deep state’s wet dreams come true’, by lumping together legitimate issues with Fisher Price amateur nonsense.

    • Thanks so much for the kind words and for enjoying the work. So glad you enjoyed The CIA and Hollywood series. Tom and I are currently working of a rough outline for season 2; getting together some of the films we want to look at, main themes for the season, etc.

      I agree with you that much of the tendency to obsess over Israel comes from a real place. What they are doing to the Palestinians and globally (Middle East, Congo…) are beyond reprehensible. I think you hit on something there though; its an obsession. Any obsession tends to obscure ones own thinking and can lead to believing in outlandish theories and complete disinfo. Point in case: Veterans Today is one of the premier spots for complete shit in the alt-media.

      • I have a couple of suggestions for the next CIA and Hollywood:

        Syriana
        Captain America: The Winter Soldier

        • Syriana was definitely CIA assisted. I’m not sure about Captain America and the CIA (I think the DOD were involved, would have to check). In truth I’ve never been able to sit all the way through Syriana, though we do plan to get into George CFR Clooney in season 2 so we’ll have a think about it all some more.

          • Interesting… I actually liked Syriana, but I could understand why one might find it boring. The CIA angle is obviously quite explicit in this film and if you do make it through you can see that the sophistication, regarding the less than flattering depiction of the CIA in terms of its betrayal of basically unceremoniously kicking Clooney’s character to the curb, takes it leaps and bounds beyond the DOD/FBI etc glorification.

            With regards to Captain America: yes, this certainly bears the stamp of the DOD all over it. However, at a most base, almost crass promotional(?) level, in one of our closing scenes, we have a shot of a minor player hitting the mark at a firing range with a shirt with “CIA” on it, plain as day.

            I commented on this film, I believe it was in a Demanufacturing Consent podcast which you were a guest on. If you recall, this was around Snowdengate and I more or less put it out there that there’s an odd subversive element to the message of the film which, as I stated in more detail than I will here (you can go back to the episode and look at the comments if you want) in my opinion, represented what seemed to me might possibly have represented some sort of minor schism between interests in the CIA vs the NSA (please read the comment before trying to negate the premise of this argument here – this goes for all of you…).

            Captain America might not fit into the confines of the angle of the series. However, I found the political element an intriguing twist on the typically high testosterone, low brain activity summer blockbuster genre. Robert Redford’s decision to star in the film appears to have been based on this element.

            Let’s be clear: the film isn’t exactly masterpiece theatre 😉 That said, it’s not Top Gun or Blackhawk Down either. The critique is largely around the targeted assassination program and the idea that this kind of preemptive safety measure is somehow out of step with American “ideals” (we only kill large numbers of civilians under questionable circumstances when we’re sure they’re not Americans; big difference).

            I’m typically not a fan of the blockbuster action flicks, but I guess I’ve got a soft spot for some of the comic book adaptations (Watchmen was probably one of the most interesting) and I enjoyed this. I guess you’ve got more of a stomach for the Captain Phillips type of propaganda though. As for me, I prefer fiction that doesn’t pretend that it isn’t.

    • To answer your question about the name of my website, Porkins is the first person to die attacking the Death Star in A New Hope. I am a massive sci-fi fan and have used Porkins for many different online names. I thought that “policy review” made it sound smart and I really liked the ring of “PPR.”

      • Gotcha…

        I’m a big sci-fi fan too and I have to throw this out there: have you (or others here) seen Ex Machina? I was totally blown away by this film and the questions it asks. It was also refreshing to see a movie touch on socially relevant subject matter (social data mining/engineering and ethical components of future tech), which unlike the more recent CIA in Hollywood type of programming, didn’t appear to be representing any agenda.

        • I actually just saw Ex-Machina last week. I was not as blown away as I thought I was going to be with the film. That being said, it was way better than any of the other transhumanist AI stuff that Hollywood has been churning out the past few years. I was particularly impressed with the idea that the whole AI system was brought about by using a Google like search engine, and by turning on everyone’s camera phones. It was also nice to see a movie that ended on an ambiguous note regarding AI and whether it may actually be a negative thing.

          Aaron Franz and Adam are going to be covering this movie on Themes and Memes soon.

          • I guess I didn’t have any expectations going into it. I thought it was brilliant artistically, first and foremost. And the fact that Garland didn’t choose to meditate on the ethics of the tech-surveillance aspect, beyond planting the seed, made the film function socially more like a beautiful coffee table book than a novel. The depth of the characters via the performance of actors is what, to me, opens up the floor to a space for conversations about some of the types of issues we might discuss here at BFP, but in the midst of company who would most likely be wary of the kind of topics they’ve otherwise been programmed to hold at arm’s length or, at best, view through a narrow lens.

          • btw: You and Tom should consider doing season 2 of the CIA and Hollywood series here…

          • I have suggested to Sibel that it premieres here at BFP, but we do intend to make it publicly available like season 1, so we’ll have to see what happens on that score. Rest assured, we are already talking about it, planning what threads to pick up on and what to leave for season 3. Also, please do continue telling people about the show, it all helps.

          • Yeah, that would be cool to have it here. I’ll definitely continue to make mention of the series. It’s pretty outstanding and I’m looking forward to the next season =]

  7. 9/11 was done by multiple high level coordinated agencies from multiple countries with a major part being Israel.

    Pearse needs to research this a lot more, I’d suggest watching 911 Missing Links.

    Sure there is many enablers in the US without dual citizenship, but the amount of dual citizens (something that shouldn’t even exist) of the US and Israel but unlike what you said, no, the US cannot take out Israel now and put somebody else in place, Israel would nuke the world 10 times over if any attack from a so-called ally was to happen.

    • Also….NATO wouldn’t be doing what it is doing since the end of the Cold War if they weren’t whipped into it by Israel, and they can even pretend to have a common enemy (Russia) as of course Israel loved to have attention taken AWAY from it during the Yugoslavian wars until the last one, the Serbian war where WWIII almost started (see what James Blunt said about how he refused orders from an American NATO general to attack a russian base in serbia in 1999 by going on about how “I’m not the one one who’s gonna be starting WWIII). If only soldiers used their right to say NO to orders that are illegal under Geneva conventions, the world would be a much better and less messed up place. Israel wanted attention away from it and the mddle east in general, not many newspapers would report on them not respecting the Oslo Accord not more than 4 yeears after it came into effect.

      • I’m not convinced Israel has the kind of clout people attribute to it. I think they represent certain interests within the deep state, mainly many key figures in US, particularly in the Neocon chicken hawk clique. Beyond that, they’re unwieldy and occasionally run wild off the leash in ways which are self serving, diplomatically compromising, and reckless. The difference is they can do this kind of stuff and count on being covered, even in the most egregious cases like the USS Liberty, mentioned elsewhere here. They’re certainly not puppets, but ultimately I don’t think they’re “calling the shots”. I don’t think the average Israeli citizen sees things this way though.

        Of course this is just my take though. There is however, no doubt that Israel was a central player in 9/11, but I would suspect more in line with what I described above and I would speculate more on an intel centric basis. Some of the theories I’ve heard about “material” support, like supplying the explosives just seem like the kind of stretch that would give Jane Fonda a muscle strain.

    • Netanyahu has dual citizenships between Israel and the United States (which is illegal under Israeli law) under four different names, which he’s refused to respond to upon official inquiries by the Knesset. Figures like Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz are basically like Israeli politicians working inside the US government. Perle even got caught leaking classified information to Israel without even getting a slap on the wrist. It’s a pretty obscene incestuous relationship.

  8. hermaph says:

    Firstly, thanks for the listen it passed some time. I can’t help, but wonder if it is even logical anymore to speak in terms of ‘nation states’ as players when doing this kind of analysis. It is a bit like discussing Santa when talking about the presents left under the tree. You now what I mean … that is not a question … you know what I mean.

  9. CuChulainn says:

    precisely, hermaph, talking about Israel either as a nation-state or as a product of imperialism as traditionally understood is misleading. Joachim Martillo has done decades of work on Eastern European and Jewish Historical Political Economics, and his analysis is illuminating to anyone with an appetite for study.
    http://www.eaazi.org/ThorsProvoni/JudoniaCompleteA.pdf

    • hermaph and ChuChu:

      This is a really great point and it was actually something I was thinking about after one of the comments I made here yesterday. I think it was in response to Marty that I was saying that to refer to “Israel” as somehow calling the shots is somewhat short sighted, inaccurate, misleading, or a bit of all of the above.

      @ChuChu:
      Thanks for posting the link, I’ll make a point to check it out.

    • CuChulainn wow, I am now reading “Judonia Rising” thanks to you. It highlights Friedmanite Economics or NEOLIBERAL economics as the tool of the Israel Lobby. Prof. Fekete of the New Austrian School of Economics has made similar assertions. In essence, the cycle of terrorism is akin to the “business cycle” which is induced by our fiat system. Prof. Fekete is also a critic of Keynesianism, something Noam Chomsky by the way is fine with (big government that is — socialism/communism/statism/fascism — various names). We have been victim to false-capitalism since (I would argue) the rise of bolshevism and I highlight the assassination of Tsar Alex II as a key marker (which parallels the assassination of Abe Lincoln).

      I have taken the liberty of adding page numbers to the pdf file here:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_fiduyhj4PFcVFRYTU3SmRsNDQ/view?usp=sharing

      You also inspired a twitlonger post: (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snbku5).

      *Cheers*

  10. Say What…
    (Germany was trying to invade this country, destroy our capital city and subjugate our population. Now we’re trading partners. Shock horror! – and awe…Yes it was.
    How come I think of Tommy Cooper…!
    Tommy Cooper- Brigadier and Fritz…!
    And a nice Mercedes Benz….to go…
    That s it…Janis Joplin…hmmm.
    Kind Regards from My little island
    Bornholm.
    Jens.

  11. And who is..
    Lord Gilbert – UK Defense Minister..(exceptionalism)..
    http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmdfence/347/0062004.htm
    Kind Regards
    Jens.

  12. You have the perfect liberty to make Nixon-like deletions.
    What…is that…!
    and,,,
    ( The other thing is—and I know this very often raises smiles if I mention it to you—I do think it is important for the future, particularly when you get people being very squeamish about the type of targets being attacked, I am quite sure we are going to see more and more in the future of two features of warfare. One is the use of unmanned aerial vehicles, we lost several and so did our Allies, and needless to say there was not a mention of this in the newspapers. Who cared? )…
    http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmdfence/347/0062004.htm
    Kind Regards
    Jens.

  13. 344thBrother says:

    Hi guys.
    This episode was jam packed with info that I needed.
    1. I admit that I rarely go to real paper to find source documentation. I like to think that I use reliable sources like Sibel to do that for me. But, I’ll keep it in mind, so thanks for keeping me honest on that.

    2. I also admit that I have been under the impression for a long time that Neo-con artists were Zionists and hadn’t thought of them as being chameleon like creatures who don’t have any allegiance to any group. Your views on this were eye opening.

    3. I also fell into the habit of assuming that Zionism as a global power was powerful enough to steer the USA’s policy. My thoughts on this were colored by the USS Liberty event, the Neo-con-zionists (Before they changed their spots), and the dual Israeli citizens at the highest levels of US Government especially around the 911 attacks. I’m not completely convinced on this one because of the appearance of Israel’s tail wagging the US dog in the above events, but I’m open to rethinking that as well.

    So, it’s not often I have 3 of my personal issues challenged so thoroughly in one episode of anything. Thanks for making me think and keep up the good work.

    peace
    d

    • 344thBrother, you set an excellent tone for an otherwise contentious podcast, judging by the comments. We are here to learn and share and reformulate views and opinions as knowledge and the evidence dictates. Your contributions at this forum are noteworthy and your humility is a refreshing reminder to us all, I think.

    • Thank you so much 344thBrother for the comment and for be willing to have your own views challenged. I understand that this particular podcast seems to have caused a bit of a shit storm but I think that is why BFP is so valuable. We should never be so set in our own theories that we are unable to think outside the box. We will never all agree on everything here, thank god for that, but it is important to questions our beliefs and to be willing to think differently on a particular subject.

    • Seriously, great comment here Brother =]

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